The Wish They Were All Dead Tory Cunt Thread

[HCZ_Reborn]

Mrs Starmer btw.
Probably would.

If we are talking about PM’s spouses I always liked Sam Cam

Victoria Starmer is twelve years younger than Starmer himself apparently

Still dwarfed by the gap between Johnson and Carrie

Not that Im especially bothered …as long as you’re an adult…marry a 90 year old for all I care

[Letters]

There are a few reasons for voter apathy.
Some people just genuinely aren’t interested. I think that’s strange as MPs are the people who make the laws which affect us.
Some people have a “they’re all as bad as each other” feeling. One I don’t subscribe to but I do understand the deep distrust of politicians.
But “the system” surely has to be a factor. At heart I feel most aligned to the Lib Dems but I don’t feel I can vote for them because they have no chance in this area. So I feel the need to vote for the least bad credible option. It’s not very satisfactory.
In Germany you apparently get two votes, one is FPTP for local representation and then a second one for the party you prefer. Not entirely sure how that all works but I’d be in favour of a more proportional system. Chances are under that Reform wouldn’t get that high a percentage of the vote because you wouldn’t have any tactical or protest voting.

[HCZ_Reborn]

There are a few reasons for voter apathy.
Some people just genuinely aren’t interested. I think that’s strange as MPs are the people who make the laws which affect us.
Some people have a “they’re all as bad as each other” feeling. One I don’t subscribe to but I do understand the deep distrust of politicians.
But “the system” surely has to be a factor. At heart I feel most aligned to the Lib Dems but I don’t feel I can vote for them because they have no chance in this area. So I feel the need to vote for the least bad credible option. It’s not very satisfactory.
In Germany you apparently get two votes, one is FPTP for local representation and then a second one for the party you prefer. Not entirely sure how that all works but I’d be in favour of a more proportional system. Chances are under that Reform wouldn’t get that high a percentage of the vote because you wouldn’t have any tactical or protest voting.

Germany have a federal system so most likely you’re voting for a state and federal representative

There is absolutely no appetite to have this model here (that’s just a statement not an opinion, I would be in favour of such a system as I think our political system is far too centralised)

[Letters]

I’m not saying we should go to the German system, but the result does seem to have started a conversation about how fit for purpose a system is where one party can get 5 seats and another get 71 with fewer votes.

Nothing will come of it of course, the turkeys who benefit from our system aren’t going to vote for the Christmas of a more proportional one

[HCZ_Reborn]

The Liberal Democrats managed to get a referendum on changing the voting system when in 2010 they got 57 seats with 23% of the vote.

AV was rejected massively (and I voted in favour of it) so I don’t think it’s just the politicians who don’t want change, the voting public at large doesn’t want it, it’s a debate that opens up after each election and I think Farage at least has been consistent on it because he spoke about it prior to polling day.

For me Legitimacy is more important than proportionality, and that’s why I do favour a system where the winning candidate in each seat does need to get over 50% of the vote.


At least we are not in the situation like America where 580,000 voters in Wyoming have exactly the same level of representation in the Senate as 38 million voters in California

[Mac76]

I've always supported PR but the party that's just won a huge majority with 36% of the vote isn't going to change it

While the Lib Dems would introduce if it they got into power, I'm willing to bet Reform, who have suffered under it in this election and had PR in their manifesto, wouldn't do it if they found themselves in power with a similar majority - all of a sudden it would fall off the 'to do' list...

[GP]

Victoria Starmer is twelve years younger than Starmer himself apparently

Cashback!

[Letters]

AV was rejected massively (and I voted in favour of it) so I don’t think it’s just the politicians who don’t want change, the voting public at large doesn’t want it

That’s pretty flawed logic in a couple of ways.
Firstly, people didn’t want to change to AV, which was the only other option on the table in the referendum. The fact they rejected that doesn’t mean they don’t want any change at all.
If I have vomit flavoured ice cream and I’m offered a change to shit flavour, me rejecting that doesn’t mean I like vomit flavour and don’t think any better flavours exist.
The second flaw in your logic is the referendum was in 2011. Public mood shifts over time. In the last general election we got a big Tory majority, now we have a big Labour one. So a snapshot of opinion in 2011 doesn’t tell you the public mood now.

I also voted for AV because it yields more proportional results. But it was a bit complicated and I don’t think most people “got” it. By default people prefer the status quo. There was no excitement about AV, the turnout was only 42%

For me Legitimacy is more important than proportionality, and that’s why I do favour a system where the winning candidate in each seat does need to get over 50% of the vote.

But can you really say the government is legitimate when only 36% of people voted for it? That’s only 2 and a half times more people than voted Reform who have next to no voice.

At least we are not in the situation like America where 580,000 voters in Wyoming have exactly the same level of representation in the Senate as 38 million voters in California

The States have different number of votes which is proportional to their population, no? I don’t really know how their system works, I’ve heard it’s terrible, but as my dad once said in a rare moment of wisdom “you should compare yourself with the best, not the worst”.

Just because worse systems exist, that doesn’t mean ours is good. Given the results - the number of seats compared to the way people voted - it’s bound to reopen the conversation. But I don’t expect it to go anywhere

[WMUG]

The States have different number of votes which is proportional to their population, no?

You're confusing the presidential elections with the Senate elections.

In Senate elections, each state elects 2 senators, regardless of population.

In presidential elections... it's pretty fucky:

[HCZ_Reborn]

That’s pretty flawed logic in a couple of ways.
Firstly, people didn’t want to change to AV, which was the only other option on the table in the referendum. The fact they rejected that doesn’t mean they don’t want any change at all.
If I have vomit flavoured ice cream and I’m offered a change to shit flavour, me rejecting that doesn’t mean I like vomit flavour and don’t think any better flavours exist.
The second flaw in your logic is the referendum was in 2011. Public mood shifts over time. In the last general election we got a big Tory majority, now we have a big Labour one. So a snapshot of opinion in 2011 doesn’t tell you the public mood now.

I also voted for AV because it yields more proportional results. But it was a bit complicated and I don’t think most people “got” it. By default people prefer the status quo. There was no excitement about AV, the turnout was only 42%


But can you really say the government is legitimate when only 36% of people voted for it? That’s only 2 and a half times more people than voted Reform who have next to no voice.


The States have different number of votes which is proportional to their population, no? I don’t really know how their system works, I’ve heard it’s terrible, but as my dad once said in a rare moment of wisdom “you should compare yourself with the best, not the worst”.

Just because worse systems exist, that doesn’t mean ours is good. Given the results - the number of seats compared to the way people voted - it’s bound to reopen the conversation. But I don’t expect it to go anywhere

Logically do you not think it likely that if people were crying out for a different system they’d go for one even if it was seen as a compromise or weak change. It’s like the left arguing as they do when Tories win elections that Labour lost because it wasn’t left wing enough. Does that make sense to you?


It’s not like Voting for AV in 2011 would have foreclosed on the option of changing to an even more radical system, so it wasn’t a case of “hmm let’s wait until something better comes along”. It was “this looks complicated and I’d rather keep things as they are”


Indeed things change in public opinion but really like with polls on the EU people see what they want to see. They see a majority in favour of going back in, but then don’t account for the salience of the issue. I don’t think constant referendums on issues is a good idea especially with a public that has stated that it doesn’t want to be going to the polls all the time (that’s why regional parliaments have tended to be a non starter)


As I’ve said this is why I favour AV, the main issue with Labours majority is too many MPs were elected with no more than 35% of the vote, and I think each seat should have an MP elected with a majority of the vote. But put that forward again for a referendum and it will be defeated, because people see it as convoluted


And then the option falls to the d’hondt method and then the problem is where do you go to if you have a local issue you need representation on, all the MPs are party vote fodder and none of them have any loyalty to a given area….and that I think would be disastrous for a representative democracy. Where an MP is there to address your concerns whether you voted for them or not