The Wish They Were All Dead Tory Cunt Thread

[GP]

Oh! One that I'd missed, former Tory, anti-vax conspiracy fruitcake Andrew Bridgen not only lost his seat, he came SIXTH and lost his deposit!

[Letters]

Logically do you not think it likely that if people were crying out for a different system they’d go for one even if it was seen as a compromise or weak change.

Imagine thinking that people vote logically
Voting for it was the logical option. It wasn't the proportional system I'd like to see but it was a step closer. That's why I voted for it. But people aren't that bright or logical. I don't think enough people saw or could be bothered to understand the advantages of it.

It was “this looks complicated and I’d rather keep things as they are”

I think that's exactly what it was.

I don’t think constant referendums on issues is a good idea

It definitely isn't, but the last referendum on the voting system wasn't that recent and the idea that a referendum result is the final say and the question should never be revisited doesn't make sense either. It made my head spin that people claimed that a second EU referendum would have been "undemocratic". How the hell is a vote undemocratic?! I'm not sure if there should have been a second one - there is a case for one if there's evidence that enough people have changed their mind. There's an even stronger case for one on the Brexit deal given that none was on the table at the time of the first referendum. Although if there had been one and "the people" had rejected it then no idea what you do then. The whole thing was a complete mess.

I don't really know what the "right" voting system is, but one where one party can get 14.3% of the vote and get 5 seats and another can get 12.2% and get 72 clearly isn't it.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Imagine thinking that people vote logically
Voting for it was the logical option. It wasn't the proportional system I'd like to see but it was a step closer. That's why I voted for it. But people aren't that bright or logical. I don't think enough people saw or could be bothered to understand the advantages of it.


I think that's exactly what it was.


It definitely isn't, but the last referendum on the voting system wasn't that recent and the idea that a referendum result is the final say and the question should never be revisited doesn't make sense either. It made my head spin that people claimed that a second EU referendum would have been "undemocratic". How the hell is a vote undemocratic?! I'm not sure if there should have been a second one - there is a case for one if there's evidence that enough people have changed their mind. There's an even stronger case for one on the Brexit deal given that none was on the table at the time of the first referendum. Although if there had been one and "the people" had rejected it then no idea what you do then. The whole thing was a complete mess.

I don't really know what the "right" voting system is, but one where one party can get 14.3% of the vote and get 5 seats and another can get 12.2% and get 72 clearly isn't it.

I didn’t say people vote logically, I said it’s a bit like believing people if they genuinely cared about the issue chose starvation over stale bread.

They didn’t vote for AV because it wasn’t radical enough, they voted for it because they didn’t understand it and they didn’t care all that much.


And yes a second referendum would have been undemocratic, take what Democracy from the Greek Demos meaning People and Kratos meaning power and strength. If people have voted a certain way and before it’s even implemented you’re telling them to have another go with the implication being that they didn’t vote the right way the first time…essentially saying their choice is an illusion.

A referendum now would be democratic because Brexit has happened…I don’t think it’s a particularly good idea. Bit like slapping a sleeping rottweiller in the nuts

[Letters]

They didn’t vote for AV because it wasn’t radical enough, they voted for it because they didn’t understand it and they didn’t care all that much.

I'd say that's about right. But I've yet to talk to anyone who thinks the disparity between the way people voted and the parliament it yielded makes any sense.
People not understanding why alternative systems are better or being apathetic about the whole issue of our voting system doesn't make our system good.

And yes a second referendum would have been undemocratic

An undemocratic vote. What a ridiculous oxymoron.

If people have voted a certain way and before it’s even implemented you’re telling them to have another go with the implication being that they didn’t vote the right way the first time…essentially saying their choice is an illusion.

I've bolded the bit that is fallacious.
The case for a second vote was not that people "didn't vote the right way", it was that there was evidence that people had changed their mind. If the latter is the case then proceeding with a course of action which the majority don't now support is undemocratic.

We don't have an election and then that's our government for all time after that. We have regular elections because the national mood changes over time. Obviously you can't have them too often, a government needs time to be able to do things.

The particular issues with the Brexit referendum were:

1) What Brexit looked like was never laid out. A lot of things were claimed but those were clearly lies. People weren't voting "for" something, they were voting against something. As I'm sure I've said numerous times, it was like asking whether you want to stay in the house you're living in now or move house. A pretty obvious follow up question is "where are we moving to?". But that wasn't known. One side were claiming it was going to be a mansion in the sunlit uplands, the other side were claiming it was going to be a run down shack with no plumbing and a leaky roof.

2) The length of time between the vote and the action that resulted from it. The vote was June 2016, we left the EU in January 2020. That's 3 and a half years. Not as long as a general election cycle but long enough. Plenty of time for the national mood to have changed. And because of point 1 above there's certainly an argument that there should have been a vote on the deal. People voted for Brexit, but did they vote for that Brexit?

It's happened now and while I've heard claims that it has affected our economy, overall it doesn't seem the sky has fallen in. It's ironic that immigration has gone up since we left, given that "all them foreigners coming over here, taking our jobs" was a part of the debate at the time. I don't think we should be looking to re-enter the EU now. I'm not even sure that's possible. But I heard Starmer saying some stuff about renegotiating some of the details of our deal with the EU which sounded sensible.

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh! One that I'd missed, former Tory, anti-vax conspiracy fruitcake Andrew Bridgen not only lost his seat, he came SIXTH and lost his deposit!

Only a hater cunt like you, who would obviously have an allergic reaction to a human being like Bridgen, would gloat about that. Bridgen tried to save kids. You probably fiddle with them.

We're coming for you. Might take a while, but expect us.

[Niall_Quinn]

Commie cunt. What did he say?

[Niall_Quinn]

Oh and Liz Truss is gone…Lol

This makes for an interesting stat, that the seats of the four previous Tory prime ministers have been lost

Witney - Cameron’s old seat and Maidenhead - May’s old seat gone to the Lib Dem’s

Uxbridge and South Ruislip - Johnson’s old seat, and Liz Truss’ seat of South West Norfolk gone to Labour

Double Lolz

Don't get it. Aren't we supposed to glorify women in politics? Especially those who break the "glass ceiling"? When are we going to get our propaganda to align for more than 15 minutes, I wonder. Truss tried to turn the conservatives back to conservatism. Good for her. You saw what happened. The real ruler of this country, the private banksters, replaced her. People whoule be worried about that. But they are too ignorant and uninformed.

[Niall_Quinn]

There are a few reasons for voter apathy.
Some people just genuinely aren’t interested. I think that’s strange as MPs are the people who make the laws which affect us.
Some people have a “they’re all as bad as each other” feeling. One I don’t subscribe to but I do understand the deep distrust of politicians.
But “the system” surely has to be a factor. At heart I feel most aligned to the Lib Dems but I don’t feel I can vote for them because they have no chance in this area. So I feel the need to vote for the least bad credible option. It’s not very satisfactory.
In Germany you apparently get two votes, one is FPTP for local representation and then a second one for the party you prefer. Not entirely sure how that all works but I’d be in favour of a more proportional system. Chances are under that Reform wouldn’t get that high a percentage of the vote because you wouldn’t have any tactical or protest voting.

Honestly, if you are aligned with the Lib Dems it means you have an instinct the whole thing is rigged, which it is, but you don't have the courage to do anything about it, hence Lib Dems. Lib Dems are as useful as the third face of the two faced, one party system, which is what they are.

[Niall_Quinn]

Labour take Rushcliffe which was until 2019 Ken Clarke’s seat

Is he dead yet? Surely he's dead by now? Or do I still have to wait to piss on his grave?

[Niall_Quinn]

60% turnout. Pretty pathetic, but too many people thought it was a foregone conclusion (which it was), that there wasn't that much difference between the parties anyway and just generally there's so much distrust of politics and politicians

Unfortunately 60% are still dumb as fuck.