Euro 2024

[Letters]

I said France have a better squad than us, I still kind of think that’s the case because we don’t have a striker on the level of Mbappe and they’ve got more top defenders.

However I was also clear (and said so long before this tournament) that Deschamps had squandered the French potential.

But you predicted them to win

And I’m saying that if Southgate had gone in 2022, a better coach would have maybe bridged the gap by finding a centre half partner for Stones, would have had White playing…would have had Trippier no where near the team and would have found a way to utilise the immense talent of Saka, Foden and Bellingham and yes I think that would have been enough to win us the competition, given what I’ve said in the past and continue to say about Didier Deschamps.

OK. But it's a bit of a pointless "prediction", it's possible but unprovable. I'm sceptical given our history, but we'll obviously never know so there's no real point in discussing that. Any more than discussing what will happen in 2 years. Do I think we'll win it with Southgate? No. But I don't think we'll win it with anyone (again, I do base that somewhat on our history) and however we do whether it's Southgate or someone else it's not possible to compare what would have happened had the alternative happened. Obviously if we do get someone else in and win it then I guess that will vindicate your position.

Maybe I’m being unfair but by your own admission you don’t want much club football, seeing some of the players England had to work with in the last two years, gives me the opinion that we can and perhaps even should win international tournaments and I can guarantee you that thought has never entered my head in relation to England prior to 2022.

It's certainly fair to say that I don't watch enough club football to really know how good our squad is compared with other squads. I was impressed with Mainoo this tournament but didn't really have an opinion of him before it. William for Spain was excellent - never heard of him before the tournament. So that's fair. But while the consensus is certainly that we do have a strong squad right now - and most people would agree that Southgate isn't a really top coach - I don't get the sense that many people think that if we had a "better" coach then we'd be sweeping all before us.

There is no guarantee we can win with a different manager but I think there’s enough evidence to guarantee we can’t win with this one.

I'd agree with that and as I've said, I think we should replace Southgate - it's less upheaval than replacing a club manager. I'm just not convinced we'll win the World Cup anyway. Some of that is being so jaded about all the failures down the years. Klopp would be interesting although I'd note that club football and international football are quite different in terms of management. With a club you get to spend every day working with players. And of course you have transfer windows where you can bolster the squad. You can't do any of that at international level. Actually one of the reasons that in some ways I prefer these international tournaments. It feels a bit more "pure" than club football. You can't have some billionaire buy Albania, buy up all the best talent and then have the press jizz themselves when they start to win tournaments. You have the players you have and that's that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Are you missing the point where I’m saying if Southgate had gone after Qatar I think we would have won. I specifically predicted France to win because Southgate was still here

Whilst you can’t buy up the best talent in international football what you can do, and which is what Spain, France and Germany have done is create a much closer relationship between the clubs and the national team….they set up national academies like Clairfontaine in France and then the clubs take up some of the most promising players from that set up

In terms of talent you of course have it or you don’t, but France, Germany, Spain and Italy all have a population size that is in and around the same as England….therefore if the money is invested early enough you get yourself a larger pool of talent to draw on.

[Shaqiri Is Boss]

Ultimately the best team won, which at least is more than you can say than the defeats against Croatia and Italy previously, where they were undoubtedly opportunities missed. That being said, Spain were still there for the taking. On the one hand they've beaten the likes of Germany, Spain, Croatia, done something no other side has done in winning 7 games in one tournament, but they aren't the Spain of 2008-12.

Southgate has undoubtedly raised our base levels from the lows of Iceland or the fossils of Capello & Hodgson, but there were huge opportunities missed because he clearly doesn't have that.... oomph. I heard someone make the comparison he was the Tim Henman of football which probably isn't too far off. Nice guy, did something no one had done for years/decades, but ultimately either wasn't good enough or missed huge chances.

Onto the team, god I fucking hate Walker. He's fucking shit. He has an ungodly amount of pace which gets him out of trouble, but the reason he has to use his pace so often is because he can't fucking defend. And shock, he was massively out of position for both goals.
Pickford did well, but his kicking was atrocious. The saves he made were standard (the one from Yamal he tipped around the post was decent granted) but he looked shaky on crosses and those punches were awful. And yet again because he's an attention seeking cunt he caused panic going for a ball and backtracking. And he's a cunt.
Kane was clearly fucked. On the one hand it's a shame someone who has been brilliant for so many years seems to fall down at the final hurdle everytime, but ultimately one has to wonder how much of that is on him. You can argue that's not 4/5 huge games he has cost his team because he clearly isn't fully fit. But then you could also argue that is on the manager. But regardless of his performances, the idea of smashing it up to him is one thing, he was still doing an OK job of that, but he had no one near him when he was found. Those few occasions he wasn't dropping deeper than Beckenbauer.
Foden was, yet again, bloody terrible. Bellingham looked knackered and was trying too much. Saka lively but can't be relied on every time. Mainoo a boy who was overawed. Rice I don't think has had a good game all tournament (I know I may get lynched for saying that here). It's all well and good excusing him carrying Trent in midfield (which I agree doesn't work at all unless you're playing a pub team) but when he isn't making simple passes then that's on him. Guehi isn't good enough. He did alright but nothing incredible.

At this point I can't be arsed going through them all, but we looked a different team when we hit with pace, forward instinct and put teams on the backfoot. That meant when the likes of Watkins, Palmer and Saka were combining. Which wasn't for very long at all. Gordon may as well have been on holiday. At 1-1, for about 3 minutes, it looked like we were on the up and could take the initiative. So we sat back and invited Spain back into it. When we had to attack again, at 2-1 down we probably should have scored with that one cleared off the line.

The chance was there and we didn't take it. Credit to Southgate for us being in the position in the first place, better managers than him have not got that far, but it's his aura of mediocrity which has stopped England from taking that final step. Luis Garciaaaa, he drinks sangriaaa.

[Mac76]

In regards to Arteta, the first few games of last season almost finished me off. Near on gave me a full on nervous breakdown , it was worse than the end days of Emery, worst than the absolute nadir of Wenger….youd have to go back to Bruce Rioch for how bad we were.

Havertz was playing like a literal Spastic, I don’t mean just bad…I mean like someone who had been deprived oxygen to the brain in the womb and affected fine motor control. Playing Partey at right back? If that shit had continued I’d have had to have stepped away or I probably would have suffered a blood clot or something

I’m not going to pretend otherwise, I would have gladly seen Arteta sacked for that in August…fortunately he didn’t stick with this dirge and we only quite bad between September and the end of the year.


As for the rest of the season, I set out the criteria by which Arteta should stay in post and despite my doubt that he could meet those standards he did and fair play to him. He’s still far from allayed my doubts about him.

As you now for me it was the folly that was Zinchenko that Arteta massively annoyed me with, but i've had to accept he's learning and has generally built a largely good squad and got them mainly playing well

As long as he sells Zin, Eddie and a few others and gets some good upgrades I'm ready to go agin with Arteta this season

[Mac76]

Ultimately the best team won, which at least is more than you can say than the defeats against Croatia and Italy previously, where they were undoubtedly opportunities missed. That being said, Spain were still there for the taking. On the one hand they've beaten the likes of Germany, Spain, Croatia, done something no other side has done in winning 7 games in one tournament, but they aren't the Spain of 2008-12.

Southgate has undoubtedly raised our base levels from the lows of Iceland or the fossils of Capello & Hodgson, but there were huge opportunities missed because he clearly doesn't have that.... oomph. I heard someone make the comparison he was the Tim Henman of football which probably isn't too far off. Nice guy, did something no one had done for years/decades, but ultimately either wasn't good enough or missed huge chances.

Onto the team, god I fucking hate Walker. He's fucking shit. He has an ungodly amount of pace which gets him out of trouble, but the reason he has to use his pace so often is because he can't fucking defend. And shock, he was massively out of position for both goals.
Pickford did well, but his kicking was atrocious. The saves he made were standard (the one from Yamal he tipped around the post was decent granted) but he looked shaky on crosses and those punches were awful. And yet again because he's an attention seeking cunt he caused panic going for a ball and backtracking. And he's a cunt.
Kane was clearly fucked. On the one hand it's a shame someone who has been brilliant for so many years seems to fall down at the final hurdle everytime, but ultimately one has to wonder how much of that is on him. You can argue that's not 4/5 huge games he has cost his team because he clearly isn't fully fit. But then you could also argue that is on the manager. But regardless of his performances, the idea of smashing it up to him is one thing, he was still doing an OK job of that, but he had no one near him when he was found. Those few occasions he wasn't dropping deeper than Beckenbauer.
Foden was, yet again, bloody terrible. Bellingham looked knackered and was trying too much. Saka lively but can't be relied on every time. Mainoo a boy who was overawed. Rice I don't think has had a good game all tournament (I know I may get lynched for saying that here). It's all well and good excusing him carrying Trent in midfield (which I agree doesn't work at all unless you're playing a pub team) but when he isn't making simple passes then that's on him. Guehi isn't good enough. He did alright but nothing incredible.

At this point I can't be arsed going through them all, but we looked a different team when we hit with pace, forward instinct and put teams on the backfoot. That meant when the likes of Watkins, Palmer and Saka were combining. Which wasn't for very long at all. Gordon may as well have been on holiday. At 1-1, for about 3 minutes, it looked like we were on the up and could take the initiative. So we sat back and invited Spain back into it. When we had to attack again, at 2-1 down we probably should have scored with that one cleared off the line.

The chance was there and we didn't take it. Credit to Southgate for us being in the position in the first place, better managers than him have not got that far, but it's his aura of mediocrity which has stopped England from taking that final step. Luis Garciaaaa, he drinks sangriaaa.

I really don't like Pickford either and if I was a defender in one of his teams I'd hate the way he always blames someone else

I think Rice was just knackered tbh and had to do too much because Southgate couldn't work out who he wanted to play alongside him

Saka always plays in fits and starts, I think he's learnt to do that becuase Arteta refuses to ever rest him

The fact we had to play Walker was down to everyone telling Southgate TAA should play in midfield, so that's where he put him and then we have Johnny Vegas pissing off Ben White and Southgate not having the guts to slap him down

[WMUG]

Don't fancy reading through the thread to reopen wounds so apologies if this has been mentioned, but surely Pickford had to do better for the winner?

He dives out of the spot where the ball ends up to cover a space where the ball was never going to go, because a defender was covering there. Where the ball went was about the only place it could've gone, I don't understand why he moved away.

[Letters]

Are you missing the point where I’m saying if Southgate had gone after Qatar I think we would have won. I specifically predicted France to win because Southgate was still here

That wasn't the only reason:

I don’t get why England are favourites, take away the impediment of Southgate and France have a stronger squad than us

And you were scathing about Dechamps too.

But it's a pointless "prediction". It's unprovable, it's unfalsifiable. The only vindication for your position is if we change manager and we win the next World Cup. The first of those things may happen, the second won't. And that's a prediction we can check in 2 years.

[Mac76]

Don't fancy reading through the thread to reopen wounds so apologies if this has been mentioned, but surely Pickford had to do better for the winner?

He dives out of the spot where the ball ends up to cover a space where the ball was never going to go, because a defender was covering there. Where the ball went was about the only place it could've gone, I don't understand why he moved away.

Yes, he got a lot of praise for some routine punches but I too think he was slow for that one - probably too busy shouting at his defenders

[Mac76]

From Twitter:

When one looks closely at Kane’s goal scoring record for England (66 goals) … The history books will say England’s greatest goal scorer but one has to understand who most of these goals were scored against :-

- Almost 50% (32 Goals) scored against lowly opposition

- San Marino (5)
- Montenegro (4)
- Malta (4)
- Albania (4)
- Bulgaria (4)
- Panama (3)
- Lithuania (2)
- Kosovo (2)
- North Macedonia (2)
- Tunisia (2)

- 33%+ are Penalties (22 goals)

[Letters]

I didn't particularly think that goal was a mistake by him, and overall he kept us in it so I wouldn't unduly criticise him.
I don't think he's really top class though.