The Labour party under Starmer is about as marxist as Thatcher, try getting up to speed
The Labour party under Starmer is about as marxist as Thatcher, try getting up to speed
The argument will be that Labour is captured by woke ideology which has cultural Marxism at its roots. When I say the argument will be, it’s not an argument I hold to. One because it’s overly simplistic to ascribe modern social justice theory to Marx because it’s a mixture of loads of different French and American sociological theories. Second there’s a doubt to the extent of which Labour buy into this stuff (or in Starmer’s case spend that much time thinking about it). They’ve rightly in my view retained a ban on puberty blockers and gained a lot of anger from people to their left.Originally Posted by Mac76
They have in my view been totally irresponsible in returning funding to UNRWA (which even if you take away the questions it has to answer over the extent of its complicity in October 7th, is an organisation that plays into this idea that Palestinians living in Gaza or the West Bank are refugees who are waiting to return home…how the fuck can you be a refugee for eighty years. This kind of thinking prevents any hope of a two state solution just as much as Hamas or the settlers). Then there is the embargo on arms to Israel (which is fortunate that the Israelis don’t rely on us for that, but they could easily decide the pharmaceuticals they export to us - should stop)
In terms of dealing with this thuggery, Labour perhaps hasn’t helped itself by Not taking an equally strong stance against the riots in Harehills a fortnight ago (although Starmer did say the other day Crime is Crime and we make no distinction). But these marches are organised by the far right regardless of whether everyone who attends is or not. Just as the pro Palestinian marches were organised by extremists even if perhaps not everyone who attended was.
There can be an accusation of two tier policing, which I think is far more about police over correcting for their own racist behaviour in the past rather than any overt political bent. And I think this accusation long predates a Labour government that is less than a month old.
Strange how suddenly the courts can find the extra capacity
The one thing that can be taken as a positive from this atavistic savagery, is that we can another term to the collection of terms applied ironically.
Legitimate concerns will take its place alongside such greats as Stunning and Brave and Religion of Peace.
For instance in Liverpool city centre I see there are people with legitimate concerns that there may in fact be too many sausage rolls in Greggs and Bath Bombs in Lush
The thing is, there are some legitimate concerns around immigration and a failure to integrate into English society. But going round smashing things up and setting things on fire isn’t a way to express those, that’s just being a load of thugs and racist wankers.
I vaguely agree with NQ’s assertion that we are, overall, one of the more tolerant nations when it comes to immigration. But the events in Southport have given a load of racist thugs an excuse to be racist thugs. Which is stupid because this was clearly a kid who isn’t right in the head. Which is nothing to do with his race or religion
The point is the term legitimate concern is doing some very heavy lifting in order to provide a mitigation for violent atavism.
It’s like how people tried to explain away the 2011 riots by going on about inequality, social exclusion and racism (because that cunt Mark Duggan happened to be black).
What is a concern is the growing sectarianism in certain areas, I mentioned it on July 5th when I decried political Islamists getting into parliament. And these scum exploit the racial/religious identitarianism just as much as the reform lot exploit the growing white identitarianism “we are in danger of becoming a minority in our own country”
This is a direct result of both left and right making hay out of exemplifying differences. But It’s not to say mass immigration has played no part, I said last year I felt uncomfortable walking around Whitechapel…not because of the colour of people’s faces but because it felt more like Sylhet than London (especially with the entrance to the station marked in Bengali as well as English).
But legitimate concerns means nothing but glib justification for violence, vandalism and looting in this context
I also think this country is one of the most tolerant and least racist in the world. We also tend not to have much in the way of social unrest either, largely because Britain is culturally attuned to be non-revolutionary.
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 04-08-2024 at 05:57 PM.
I was in Liverpool on the weekend and witnessed some pretty shameful stuff.
How shit and insignificant of a life have you got to lead to feel compelled to go out and destroy city centres and assault innocent people for no reason. I think everyone agrees that immigration needs to be controlled but most of these knuckle draggers are just getting involved for the sake of causing chaos. Not only that but you’ve got feral kids running around looting and setting off fireworks in public spaces. Embarrassing state this country is in right now.
Yes, I get what point you're making.
We are a pretty tolerant country, as these things go. But I do understand concerns about immigration - I've posted on here how it increasingly feels like we are in the minority in some areas. "We" being white British. Back in the day you'd have immigrants of course - you'd have the Italian kid or the Indian kid or whatever at school. But because there weren't that many they were fairly isolated so just became ingrained in British culture. Now you have round my way a Turkish community, a Greek community and so on. It would be an exaggeration to say they don't mix with others, but it is true that they're less integrated than they used to be and it does cause feelings of being out of place. A bit like how we have basically taken over the Costa del Sol and now it's all Irish Bar and Joe's Caff. I would imagine that pisses off the locals there, I guess they tolerate it because it's good for them economically. But I can understand how the recent incident can spark this sort of unrest. It's obviously bullshit justification for violent thugs to be violent thugs
The big issue is you have people like Farage telling people that it's because of immigrants that you're poor, it's because of immigrants that you can't see a doctor. It's obvious bullshit but they're an easy scapegoat for certain people to use. That all sows the seeds of division and resentment so it doesn't take much of an incident to cause it all to boil over.
30% of the UK is either the child or grandchild of immigrants. So if people are targeting immigration on those grounds (which they appear to be doing with this stabby nut case) that’s going to create huge problems if these halfwits are going to claim that just over two thirds of those living in Britain are actually British.
What you’ve said about concern for areas not feeling like the same areas you grew up in and Integration not being apparent is all legitimate in my view, but it has zero to do with Southport or the subsequent violence…
Integration has always been more my concern more than number (although as you’ve observed greater number contributes to integration taking longer) I think the social justice mindset and this idea of embracing multiculturalism I don’t think helps. It’s not that I expect people abandon their own culture but it shouldn’t be in competition with British values and monocultural enclaves are hugely undesirable
But as I repeat, this violence has as much to do with this as the 2011 riots had to do with the Police killing Mark Duggan. People with legitimate concerns don’t attack police, set fire to civic buildings, loot from shops and commit arson and attempted murder.
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 05-08-2024 at 09:32 AM.
Farage is a grifter no more no less, he will always look for something to latch onto. In 2020 he made an abortive attempt to set up a political movement from being Anti Lockdown but he couldn’t get the traction about it. A year after Brexit he also remarked that immigration wasn’t the key issue for voters anymore. And until the small boats coming here largely spent his time taking money to record personalised messages for people.
Even if Integration had been more successful, and people weren’t minded to come up with conspiratorial explanations for mass migration other than the true reasons, because of low birth rates leading to an ageing population and to create economic growth. In this social media there would always be some grievance to exploit real or imagined. And with all grievances there’s always a grain of truth.
The fact is globalisation isn’t a conspiracy, it’s a natural occurrence of technological development. And whilst the global south is on an upward trajectory in terms of better living conditions on the whole it’s still behind the western world in terms of overall poverty, life chances etc.
Human beings are also naturally itinerant, we didn’t just leave the African savannahs to avoid heat death. The idea that everyone was always just going to stay in the same place is daft. And plenty of Brits migrate to Europe, the Anglosphere and even areas of South East Asia and the Arab gulf for work purposes (not in the same number admittedly)
My argument is that if we don’t want people coming here, we need to a) address the low pay gig economy that prevents the “indigenous” British from taking up certain jobs, and put more money into vocational training so that we aren’t having to import a skilled work force and b) Need to rethink the way we do foreign aid which at the moment allows corrupt dictators to pocket the money and do nothing for the people there
We also need governments to stop speaking out of both sides of their mouth on the issue. The immigration issue was centrered on the small boats and the government did draconian gesture politics with the expensive and ineffective Rwanda scheme. But the vast spite in immigration were people invited here to supplement the work force in the care sector (another side effect from having an ageing population) and bring the money into universities from foreign students
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 05-08-2024 at 09:54 AM.
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