This Weekend's Fixtures & Newcastle v West Ham (23/24/25 Nov.)

[HCZ_Reborn]

I still am, frankly.

They got relegated, what more do you want?

[Letters]

And no 12 games isn’t enough when you look at the games they have been played.

You keep saying stuff like this and that they're just being lucky. They've won 10 out of 12 games, the only games they've dropped points in are a baffling loss to Forest and a pretty creditable result against us. Even if most of the others are games they "should" win, most teams drop points here and there in games like that. They can't keep on being lucky, there does seem to be more about this team than I thought. I still think you're clinging on to your pre-season thesis longer than makes sense.

And should they win the league that should spell the end for Arteta, losing to Man City is one thing….losing to an inferior Liverpool team which is relying heavily on ageing stars like Salah and Van Dijk is another thing

If they end up as champions then they're not inferior, you don't just fluke a title. Although I'd agree that should be the end for Arteta, his job was to make us champions, he's been allowed to invest heavily to get us there. I don't blame him for last season but if it's Liverpool and not us who take advantage if City do have their worst season in years then I agree he should go.

[Letters]

Man Utd

P12 W4 D4 L4 F13 A13

[WMUG]

They got relegated, what more do you want?

I just mean that part of my brain still can't compute the idea of them actually winning the league, even now.

Even though it happened, it still isn't going to happen.

[HCZ_Reborn]

You keep saying stuff like this and that they're just being lucky. They've won 10 out of 12 games, the only games they've dropped points in are a baffling loss to Forest and a pretty creditable result against us. Even if most of the others are games they "should" win, most teams drop points here and there in games like that. They can't keep on being lucky, there does seem to be more about this team than I thought. I still think you're clinging on to your pre-season thesis longer than makes sense.


If they end up as champions then they're not inferior, you don't just fluke a title. Although I'd agree that should be the end for Arteta, his job was to make us champions, he's been allowed to invest heavily to get us there. I don't blame him for last season but if it's Liverpool and not us who take advantage if City do have their worst season in years then I agree he should go.

The situation for me is analogous to us two seasons ago, I felt it was too early after 12 games then to call us contenders and guess what we had exactly the same points as Liverpool do now.


I’m still of the view that it’s just as likely that they will drop off and be battling for top four within a few months (but that depends as much on us and city as it does them) and I don’t just say that because “well they haven’t played anyone yet” it’s because they genuinely don’t look that good. They in fact looked a hell of a lot better last season at this point despite in terms of points being four points better off now.

It’s not always the case that the team with the best players win the league. Leicester had a tremendous season but it’s fair to say in terms of playing personnel that there were half a dozen teams better than them. With Liverpool this season it’s at least two teams

I really don’t get this need to browbeat on your part, if you go back far enough I even said that Liverpool might look like they were in contention because of how easy their fixtures were. But if we hadn’t dropped ten points in four games, we wouldn’t be having this debate now.

I can’t tell you something that I don’t feel, I don’t feel I’ve underestimated Liverpool….and I genuinely feel other people are jumping the gun out of panic.


December is an absolute ball breaker for them, if they still have the same advantage over us that they have now a month later, they will probably win the thing. If they are four-five points clear they are likely contenders (but with the caveat that I’m confident of overhauling them). Less than four-five points….even with City’s hemorrhaging…they could struggle for top four because…arguably even Chelsea are in the mix

[HCZ_Reborn]

I just mean that part of my brain still can't compute the idea of them actually winning the league, even now.

Even though it happened, it still isn't going to happen.

Yes I know what you meant, twas a joke

And yes it was a complete inversion of footballing gravity

[Marc Overmars]

I think there will be a bit of a course correction once Liverpool have had their really tricky away days however my main worry is that we’ve left ourselves too much to do. We need to win at least 21 of the remaining 26 fixtures to hit 85 points if we’re thinking the bar is lower this season.

So a couple more dud results and I think we’re finished. The run we went on from January last season pretty much has to start a month earlier now.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I think there will be a bit of a course correction once Liverpool have had their really tricky away days however my main worry is that we’ve left ourselves too much to do. We need to win at least 21 of the remaining 26 fixtures to hit 85 points if we’re thinking the bar is lower this season.

So a couple more dud results and I think we’re finished. The run we went on from January last season pretty much has to start a month earlier now.

If we won every game from now till the end of the season that would give us 100 points. And therefore it’s fair to say we do have a little bit of room if as you say we should finish with minimum of 85 points

[Letters]

The situation for me is analogous to us two seasons ago, I felt it was too early after 12 games then to call us contenders and guess what we had exactly the same points as Liverpool do now.

That might not be a great analogy though as we were contenders that season and actually favourites until towards the end when we had one of our dodgy patches.

I really don’t get this need to browbeat on your part

I'm just interested how you seem to be sticking to your guns and don't seem to be re-evaluating your position as they just keep winning. You can't keep on dismissing it as luck.
And I think we would still be having this debate were we closer to them because I don't think either of us expected them to go off like a train like this.

But let's see where we all are at the turn of the year - that is something we agree on.

[WMUG]

That might not be a great analogy though as we were contenders that season and actually favourites until towards the end when we had one of our dodgy patches.

To make the opposite point, that "dodgy patch" was the part of the season that contained all our hardest fixtures.

I made the point before the season even started that if we made top 4 that year, it'd look like we'd bottled a title race.

Now granted we did do better than anybody expected, but we were always in a bit of a false position for most of the campaign for that reason.