This Weekend's Fixtures & Newcastle v West Ham (23/24/25 Nov.)

[HCZ_Reborn]

That might not be a great analogy though as we were contenders that season and actually favourites until towards the end when we had one of our dodgy patches.


I'm just interested how you seem to be sticking to your guns and don't seem to be re-evaluating your position as they just keep winning. You can't keep on dismissing it as luck.
And I think we would still be having this debate were we closer to them because I don't think either of us expected them to go off like a train like this.

But let's see where we all are at the turn of the year - that is something we agree on.

Except I reject your characterisation, they haven’t gone off like a train. If they’d won six or seven games in a row in the league that’s one thing but they haven’t. Their biggest winning streak in the premier league is four games, and City won their first four games, and we are all straining our necks to view a giant car wreck at this moment in time

And I use that because you especially were at pains to tell me how it was City we would struggle catching up to because of their propensity to go into beast mode, and frankly I knew different….i didn’t predict that the calamity would be this spectacular but I could see they were headed for trouble.


Are Liverpool headed for trouble? I don’t know….certainly not in the same way City have been. But I think it’s fair to say when you’re not absolutely tanking your opponents and when decisions have gone for them that clearly haven’t gone for us, it’s fair to say there’s no small amount of luck involved. Even the best teams need a bit of luck so I’m not knocking them for that, but I’m sorry I’m not seeing what you are….they haven’t particularly surprised me because i was aware of what their fixtures were back in June, and I similarly saw City winning easy games even after they lost Rodri - Beating Fulham, Wolves and Southampton.

Them being nine points clear of us is far more reflective of the fact that we didn’t win a single game in four. The last time that happened was when the wheels fell of our title challenge in 2023. You be surprised if you want to, I keep telling you I’m not nor am I particularly impressed.

I’ll be impressed if they beat Newcastle, Everton, Spurs and West Ham away or even get eight points from those fixtures in December. Or if they lose Salah and Van Dijk and they don’t utterly implode.

I really don’t know what else to tell you, I’ve done my level best to fill in the gaps for you. There’s nothing I can say to you that will change your mind that I’m not just being stubborn.

[Letters]

To make the opposite point, that "dodgy patch" was the part of the season that contained all our hardest fixtures.

I made the point before the season even started that if we made top 4 that year, it'd look like we'd bottled a title race.

Now granted we did do better than anybody expected, but we were always in a bit of a false position for most of the campaign for that reason.

I remember at the time I was concerned about the tough run in. A mate said to me "everyone has to play everyone twice". Which is obviously true, but they don't all play them in the same order and that can have an effect.

[Marc Overmars]

To be honest apart from Spurs away I would expect them to win most of their December fixtures. Barcodes away is obviously tough on paper but it’s also an opponent Liverpool have got the better of for years. I don’t remember the last time Newcastle beat them that’s for sure and I think there’s been very few draws in that time too. As for Neverton, well they’re absolutely shit and that derby has been a joke for years. I’d wager the game at Goodison last season was an outlier more than anything.

Let’s see anyway, I don’t anticipate much of a drop off from them at least until new year. It’s more us I’m bothered with, we need to win and keep winning to keep the gap respectable at the very least.

[HCZ_Reborn]

To be honest apart from Spurs away I would expect them to win most of their December fixtures. Barcodes away is obviously tough on paper but it’s also an opponent Liverpool have got the better off for years. I don’t remember the last time Newcastle beat them that’s for sure and I think there’s been very few draws in that time too. As for Neverton, well they’re absolutely shit and that derby has been a joke for years. I’d wager the game at Goodison last season was an outlier more than anything.

Let’s see anyway, I don’t anticipate much of a drop off from them at least until new year. It’s more us I’m bothered with, we need to win pretty much every game and if we’re close enough come January then it’s game on.

I think previous form goes out the window. These records were Klopp’s achievements. And whilst I’m not knocking the bald Dutchman because he did inherit this team and they’ve lost a lot of their top players and replaced them with players that aren’t as good…..this Liverpool side is no where near as formidable as the Klopp team.


Liverpool could for sure do well in these fixtures, but they’d have to show a solidity and guile that hitherto I’ve not really seen. Spurs are all over the place but at their best they could absolutely destroy that Liverpool defence. Everton are shit but we’ve found derby days tough even when Spurs were flirting with relegation….going to Goodison park is never easy and Liverpool have won twice there in the last ten league encounters. West Ham can be a bit of a strange fixture for Liverpool

The point is though these fixtures are far tougher than anything they’ve previously had to deal with away from home. We could barely beat war torn Shaktah when we played Liverpool otherwise we’d have torn them to shreds, other than that who have they beaten away from home? United ? United is everyone’s bitch currently


We do need to win most if not all the games in that run, but these are games we should be winning. West Ham (a), United (h), Fulham (a), Everton (h), Palace (a), Ipswich (h).


Frankly if we aren’t getting as near to 18 points as possible, we have no business challenging to begin with and that’s got nothing to do with what Liverpool are or are not doing

[Letters]

Except I reject your characterisation, they haven’t gone off like a train.

31 points out of 36

And I use that because you especially were at pains to tell me how it was City we would struggle catching up to because of their propensity to go into beast mode, and frankly I knew different….i didn’t predict that the calamity would be this spectacular but I could see they were headed for trouble.

You didn't "know" anything
Behave yourself. You make wrong predictions all the time about football, as do I, as do we all. Don't pat yourself on the back too hard for your foresight when you get one right.

I’m sorry I’m not seeing what you are

I famously don't watch much football so I'm not really seeing anything, but you can't argue with their results. I don't buy it's just dumb luck by now. That said, I do accept their fixtures have been kind so far which does put them in a bit of a false position. But while you may have seen a fixture like Southampton vs Liverpool and expect Liverpool to win it, you expect teams to drop points here and there in games they "should" win, and they just haven't so far. And the fact they got a point at our place tells me there's something about them. I am starting to take the more seriously. But anyway, as we keep saying, let's see where we all are at the turn of the year.

Them being nine points clear of us is far more reflective of the fact that we didn’t win a single game in four.

This is certainly true - I was a little alarmed to note we've only won half our games so far, not ideal for a side with title pretentions.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know the Sun will come up tomorrow, experience tells me that more likely than not it will. Foreknowledge of any kind is an exercise in finite probability. If you see smoke rising from a dumpster, it’s possible there’s another explanation but 999 times out of a 1000 you’ve got yourself a bin fire.

I’m not patting myself on the back, I’m doing the opposite I’m saying City’s travails were rather all too easy to foresee.


I don’t know that Liverpool will come off the rails, and of course it’s certainly in my interest that they do so. But I don’t look at them and think “where are they going to drop points?”. I thought yesterday was conceivable that they’d drop points….not because I think Southampton are anything but terrible but as you’ve pointed out yourself there’s a difference between a fixture you should win on paper and how it plays out.

That’s why I’m still waiting for the other shoe to drop. Because the performances have been average. Honestly If you were to go away and watch Liverpool’s matches (not even all of them, just say the last four or five) don’t have to watch beginning to end…Match of the Day highlights will suffice and you come back and tell me this is a team that looks like likely league winners, who haven’t massively relied on luck….then I would actually take your view more seriously than I do now

[Marc Overmars]

Frankly if we aren’t getting as near to 18 points as possible, we have no business challenging to begin with and that’s got nothing to do with what Liverpool are or are not doing

Agreed, the trouble is I’ve seen some vulnerabilities in us that weren’t there last season, so I’m unsure if we will get those 18 points or at least 16.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Agreed, the trouble is I’ve seen some vulnerabilities in us that weren’t there last season, so I’m unsure if we will get those 18 points or at least 16.

See this is where I’m in disagreement with both yourself and a lot of others, in that I’ve not seen vulnerabilities that weren’t there last season.

The first three games of last season were a complete and utter shit fest, up until January there had only been three away games in ten where we’d scored more than one goal. December of last year was a complete and utter car crash (lost three league games in one month)


Apart from one being at lunchtime, and one being in the evening there was almost no difference in the Newcastle away fixture for example. Absolutely toothless in both.


The Chelsea fixture? I think people don’t realise just how bad we were in the game in 2023 despite coming from two nil down


We won six games from 12 in the period from mid October until the end of the year (just like we have in 12 games now) we conceded 14 goals and scored the same amount of goals we scored in our first 12 games this time around - 21

[Letters]

as you’ve pointed out yourself there’s a difference between a fixture you should win on paper and how it plays out.

Indeed. But this is why I'm raising an eyebrow at you continuing to call their performances average. Average performances yield average results...on average.
Of course there will be times you play poorly and win, or play well and lose. That's football. But if you keep putting in average performances then you're not going to keep on winning and they just...do. Easy fixtures or no, I can't believe it can be entirely luck. There does seem to be something about them this season. Whether they'll maintain this...it seems unlikely, but I keep thinking that. Hopefully December will see them drop enough points and we can go on a run and haul them in a bit.
You use the word "average" a lot by the way - elsewhere you chastised someone else for using it because average compared with what?

[Letters]

See this is where I’m in disagreement with both yourself and a lot of others, in that I’ve not seen vulnerabilities that weren’t there last season.

Our defence doesn't feel as solid, I think that's the main thing for me. Last season we shut up shop and saw games out, this year we're struggling to keep clean sheets.