Clown World thread: for all the non-thread worthy bullshit going on in today's brave new world

[HCZ_Reborn]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/ckgv8v5ge37o

I guess this can go here.

You always notice with these things how it’s centered, it’s never about defining a man even though we clearly have trans men (and what a tragedy that is). But the fact that we are constantly discussing the appropriateness of biological males in bathrooms, on the female prison estate or in sports….suggests to me that the issue is one of male entitlement (and don’t I sound like a textbook feminist ). One has to say that the fact that the definition of woman is being discussed means that it’s an instance where women are drawing the short straw in society once again.
And not this time for conservative/religious reasons but in hoc to progressive values, and to a nonsense sociological theory that posits that sex and gender as indivisible and that biology plays second fiddle to individual identification.


The fact is, it becomes impossible to define a woman as anything other than an adult human female because any other explanation for what a woman is becomes an awful stereotype. If someone says “I feel like a woman”, what does that actually mean?…is there meant to be some level of feminine behaviour that defines womanhood which risks imposing stratifying gender roles.

My opinion is the same as it was a decade ago, If a guy wants to wear a dress, wear makeup, grow his hair long and call himself a girls name….if they want to undergo chemical and surgical augmentation……that’s their choice. To put it bluntly if they’ve had their penis inverted and turned into a false vagina it suggests they are committed enough to this belief that they are probably not going to be a danger to women (almost all accounts of sexual assault committed by trans against women and girls, tend to be self identifying trans women who have not gone through the chemical or surgical change)

But if they were simply women, they would not need the prefix trans woman….and it’s absolutely inappropriate for them to demand that they be considered indistinguishable from biological females in order to gain validation.


Inclusion in Sports and Child transitioning are controversies in their own right, so I haven’t even touched on them

[HCZ_Reborn]

It is a difficult subject. To call gender dysphoria a mental ilness, well that brings into question how we define mental ilness because until 1980 homosexuality was considered a mental illness under the DSM.

If we overlook that there’s a great deal of social contagion involving trans people, and deal with only those genuinely thought to have gender dysphoria. Well what is it? Given we understand so little about the brain who knows. Coleman Hughes (who I am a big fan of) suggested it could be something similar to phantom limb syndrome.

Another explanation is that of a controversial term known as autogynephillia where a man is sexually aroused by the thought of himself as a woman. I think despite the claim that it’s just a bigoted view that trans people are fetishists, I do think it accounts for many instances of male to female transitioning, but I don’t think all of them.


It also doesn’t account for dysphoria in females, although this is a bit post hoc….theres a high prevalence of sexual abuse that prefaces women identifying as men (the idea that if they make their bodies masculine they won’t be targeted by predatory men…is pretty heartbreaking justification for what many would suggest is self-mutilation)


Anyway yeah complicated subject. I wish people were able to discuss it maturely.


But yeah, to sum up a Woman is an Adult Human Female and keeping with this definition is not prejudiced against Trans people

[Letters]

It is a difficult subject. To call gender dysphoria a mental ilness, well that brings into question how we define mental ilness because until 1980 homosexuality was considered a mental illness under the DSM.

I think one could reasonably say that both are psychological, but I wouldn't call them illnesses. Sexual attraction surely has to be an evolved thing to promote procreation (he says, not really knowing what he's talking about). Homosexuality is contrary to that so one could consider it an aberration, it means the person is unlikely to reproduce which makes one wonder how something like that would evolve. But it's very common in nature, so...
When it comes to Trans, as you say elsewhere what does "feeling like a woman" or "feeling like a man" even mean? There are difference between the sexes but there's an awful lot of overlap too. Feeling you identify more with what are stereotypically male traits is one thing, that spilling over into feeling like you are the "wrong" sex and want to become the other one...that feels like something which should be treated. But if it's a psychological condition then I'd suggest the treatment should be psychological too. I'm not convinced lopping parts off or adding them on is the right thing to do.

Anyway yeah complicated subject. I wish people were able to discuss it maturely.

Definitely agree with that. I'm frustrated by some people in churches who treat things like this as simple black and white issues. They really aren't simple and I should stress that most people I encounter in Christian circles do recognise that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I often wondered whether homosexuality was natures way of preventing overpopulation, I guess that surrogacy has been a loophole to get around that (I don’t like surrogacy as a matter of principle but that’s a different discussion)

Yes I think it’s valid to say something can be psychologically abnormal (deviates from the majority) without being considered an illness. I suppose the definition of what is considered a malady is how detrimental a condition or a state of mind either is to the individual or those around them.

No im certainly not convinced by the necessity of as you say lopping off parts, but I will caveat that by saying a) I think people should have the right to do a thing even if it’s unwise as long as they aren’t hurting anyone else and b) I simply do not know enough to conclude fulsomely that it is definitely unwise, I'm just not sure like yourself that it’s necessarily the best course of action especially when you’re talking about an irreversible process