When will Arteta be sacked by

[Chippy]

The annoying thing is that the Spuds are now only a couple of points behind us and looked bloody good against Villa today. It's all going tits up at the moment.

[IBK]

Thinking about our last few games - and some of our other disappointing results this season, I'm starting to think that an issue is a lack of self-belief. We have seen the manager and his team retreat into their shells when it really counts. We have seen uncharateristic errors at the back, and a lack of composure in front of goal. And we have seen an element of panic when key players go missing...the performance after Big Gabi went off against Liverpool is a good example of this. So is the general reluctance to pass to Nwaneri on Saturday, and our MF in particular not being able to keep the ball/advance properly when chasing a goal.

I am wondering whether our failure to get across the line for the league last season has affected the team's confidence and automatisms? We have debated the fact that Odegard's absense has made us into a 'defend first' outfit that relies on fine margins to prevail when needed. But while any team would miss a key player, wannabe league champions should, and need to find other ways to impose themselves on games. We have done so in fits and starts this season, but I am seeing a team that does not really believe that they can do it, and a manager who is suddenly looking bereft of a real plan. It's fine to look at circumstances and decisions that have gone against us, but Arsenal to me look like a team that is wilting rather than trying to take the game to the opposition, and both Bournemouth and Newcastle played like teams who felt they had little to fear as long as they executed their own game plan.

Arsenal have at times looked brittle throughout Arteta's tenure - and it looks ATM like our players lack the confidence needed to do what is needed.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

I think you are on to something.

It clearly does seem like the players are all playing with more caution than they did last season especially when they get to the final third. I also think maybe our early success with set pieces and the typical Arteta goals have them thinking that's the only way they can score, especially when they are in an adverse situation.

In the Newcastle game, it was annoying seeing them repeatedly go for crosses when it was clear Pope and their defence had sussed us out.

Yeah, you might say the best chance to equalise came from a cross, but that's the 100th time we had tried. BTW, I think the best chance to equalise was when Saka was finally free thanks to a rare Newcastle lapse, and Trossard missed the most basic of passes.

Whatever it is our players need 5o stop playing with chains on and being robotic.

Saka doesn't have this problem as he's rightly self-confident and he can be the difference. Trossard for some reason has started second guessing himself. Jesus never plays with chains, and it could be argued he has way too much faith in his ability with the kind of subpar end product he delivers.

The only other person who seems not to be affected by this malaise is Nwaneri...and that's because he's fresh, young and has so much to look ahead to. And this is my main gripe with Arteta for the last month. With Odegaard's unforeseen absence, he had the best excuse in the world to properly blood the youngster, and if it did not work out, the poor boy wouldn't have felt bad as he would have known he was only playing because Odegaard was absent. This is something AW would have never missed a chance to do.

This is one of the reasons we must insist that our next coach has bags of experience to fall back on.

[Mac76]

@IBK I think that the reasons you give, along with the refs being so against us, has knocked the wind out of the teams' sails a bit

This is where Arteta's relentless caution and stubbornness can be a hindrance not a help - I think if Nwaneri had been given more chances generally and been started against Newcastle it might have been different - by the time he came on the pattern was set - I think he wasn't quite in phase with everyone which is why he didn't receive the ball more often

I'm worried that Edu going will only make things worse in terms of giving Arteta too much power at the club - we will be in a Wenger situation again if we're not too careful

As fans we need to know there's enough objectivity and experience in other positions at the club to be able to know when Arteta needs to be asked to go or at very least heavily questioned and told to seek advice

[IBK]

I think you are on to something.

It clearly does seem like the players are all playing with more caution than they did last season especially when they get to the final third. I also think maybe our early success with set pieces and the typical Arteta goals have them thinking that's the only way they can score, especially when they are in an adverse situation.

In the Newcastle game, it was annoying seeing them repeatedly go for crosses when it was clear Pope and their defence had sussed us out.

Yeah, you might say the best chance to equalise came from a cross, but that's the 100th time we had tried. BTW, I think the best chance to equalise was when Saka was finally free thanks to a rare Newcastle lapse, and Trossard missed the most basic of passes.

Whatever it is our players need 5o stop playing with chains on and being robotic.

Saka doesn't have this problem as he's rightly self-confident and he can be the difference. Trossard for some reason has started second guessing himself. Jesus never plays with chains, and it could be argued he has way too much faith in his ability with the kind of subpar end product he delivers.

The only other person who seems not to be affected by this malaise is Nwaneri...and that's because he's fresh, young and has so much to look ahead to. And this is my main gripe with Arteta for the last month. With Odegaard's unforeseen absence, he had the best excuse in the world to properly blood the youngster, and if it did not work out, the poor boy wouldn't have felt bad as he would have known he was only playing because Odegaard was absent. This is something AW would have never missed a chance to do.

This is one of the reasons we must insist that our next coach has bags of experience to fall back on.

A good point regarding the robotic nature of our play. Its OK when a very structured method of approaching games yields results. However when it doesn't it becomes very easy to doubt what you are doing. This lack of conviction and enterprise is quite apparent in this current Arsenal team - which is why we pin our hopes on a 17 year old who seems to break the mould, and may explain why the other players seemed to be on a different wavelength. We do seem to be wound too tight ATM.

[IBK]

@IBK I think that the reasons you give, along with the refs being so against us, has knocked the wind out of the teams' sails a bit

This is where Arteta's relentless caution and stubbornness can be a hindrance not a help - I think if Nwaneri had been given more chances generally and been started against Newcastle it might have been different - by the time he came on the pattern was set - I think he wasn't quite in phase with everyone which is why he didn't receive the ball more often

I'm worried that Edu going will only make things worse in terms of giving Arteta too much power at the club - we will be in a Wenger situation again if we're not too careful

As fans we need to know there's enough objectivity and experience in other positions at the club to be able to know when Arteta needs to be asked to go or at very least heavily questioned and told to seek advice

Yes - this is one of my concerns - that it ends up placing too much power/responsibility in Arteta's hands, and removes from the structure someone who can question the manager's decisions.

[Letters]

I saw somebody on here say we can't get hung up on such things. True, we can't let it get the better of us. But neither should we ignore it. It should continue to be called out for the disruption it is, just as any injury is a disruption. People say, poor gypo, no Rodri. What's the difference between that handicap and the points that were stolen from us by corrupt officials?

I agree with a lot of your post and I definitely feel we've been robbed in a couple of games this season.
But not Bournemouth - I think that was a fair enough sending off, I think we'd have been screaming for a red had that foul happened against us.
Not Liverpool - I didn't particularly think it was a foul for that late chance, but we had enough dominance to kill off that game, and we didn't. That's on us.
Not Newcastle, that one was all us.

Refs have cost us points this season, but we've done it to ourselves too. And the reason for that is we didn't address the clear areas of weakness in the summer. We all knew what we needed to do and we didn't do it. It's the 3rd season in a row we haven't had a striker worthy of the name. We mostly got away with it last year, we're not this season so far.

[IBK]

I heard an excellent comment on a podcast recently. This was that where we might see a lack of intensity in the press, the real explanation might be that where teams set up in a low block and invite us to come onto them there is simply no space for players to generate forward momentum, and of course little space for supporting players to exploit. The converse is true for the defending team. It is relatively easy for them to intercept passing in such a congested space. What we are seeing with many teams we face is that they are not just defending, they are looking to launch counter attacks and have the quick players to do so. We end up so high up the pitch that the opposition often has a lot of open space behind us to exploit, and our defenders are left running back towards their own goal and out of shape, with no MF to cover them.

This is less of a problem for us when Odegard plays, because he is able to operate in absurdly small pockets of space, and can deal with 2 or 3 players being drawn to him. However, Havertz even when dropping deep is not that kind of player, and certainly Rice in an advanced role cannot do so. Our response has been to play everything down the wings, but Saka usually has 2 or 3 players on him; Martinelli has noone inside him to interchange with (we haven't solved the problems on our LHS generally), and there is no movement through the middle because our MF is playing in fear of a turnover. Hence the U-shaped passing of doom.

Arteta's lack of focus on playmakers has left us stodgy and predictable - particularly when we go a goal down and the other side can then sit in - like Newcastle did.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I heard an excellent comment on a podcast recently. This was that where we might see a lack of intensity in the press, the real explanation might be that where teams set up in a low block and invite us to come onto them there is simply no space for players to generate forward momentum, and of course little space for supporting players to exploit. The converse is true for the defending team. It is relatively easy for them to intercept passing in such a congested space. What we are seeing with many teams we face is that they are not just defending, they are looking to launch counter attacks and have the quick players to do so. We end up so high up the pitch that the opposition often has a lot of open space behind us to exploit, and our defenders are left running back towards their own goal and out of shape, with no MF to cover them.

This is less of a problem for us when Odegard plays, because he is able to operate in absurdly small pockets of space, and can deal with 2 or 3 players being drawn to him. However, Havertz even when dropping deep is not that kind of player, and certainly Rice in an advanced role cannot do so. Our response has been to play everything down the wings, but Saka usually has 2 or 3 players on him; Martinelli has noone inside him to interchange with (we haven't solved the problems on our LHS generally), and there is no movement through the middle because our MF is playing in fear of a turnover. Hence the U-shaped passing of doom.

Arteta's lack of focus on playmakers has left us stodgy and predictable - particularly when we go a goal down and the other side can then sit in - like Newcastle did.

This is virtually a truism. It’s pretty much objective fact that’s what’s been happening especially at home.

It’s why we keep far fewer clean sheets at home than we do away from home.

I don’t think it’s just a lack of playmakers either, even when we have Odegaard we often need to get him to drop deep to receive the ball. The main problem for me is this ridiculous inverted full back system. We rarely see any overlap on the left hand side and that’s why we have the focal point for our attacks all on the right and defenders double or treble up on Saka.


NQ said it the other day that Arteta is more worried about losing than winning, although ironically our defeats under him are greatly in excess of the games we’ve drawn.


I’m all for having this mean machine defence that can’t be beaten, but ultimately even the best defenders in the world are going to be stretched if you give the opposition space to break in midfield (we aren’t good at dealing with transition play)

Maybe Arteta has this long term plan to shape the attack next, but it’s certainly been a second or third order consideration for him until now

[IBK]

This is virtually a truism. It’s pretty much objective fact that’s what’s been happening especially at home.

It’s why we keep far fewer clean sheets at home than we do away from home.

I don’t think it’s just a lack of playmakers either, even when we have Odegaard we often need to get him to drop deep to receive the ball. The main problem for me is this ridiculous inverted full back system. We rarely see any overlap on the left hand side and that’s why we have the focal point for our attacks all on the right and defenders double or treble up on Saka.


NQ said it the other day that Arteta is more worried about losing than winning, although ironically our defeats under him are greatly in excess of the games we’ve drawn.


I’m all for having this mean machine defence that can’t be beaten, but ultimately even the best defenders in the world are going to be stretched if you give the opposition space to break in midfield (we aren’t good at dealing with transition play)

Maybe Arteta has this long term plan to shape the attack next, but it’s certainly been a second or third order consideration for him until now

The other irony was that we signed Raya in large part for his distribution. I cannot help but feel that this was to give us another option by going long so as to stretch play going forwards. But we don't even seem to be able to spring properly when the other side is on us...