Match reacton - Soton

[Niall_Quinn]

Ok. Now try reading my post. I suspect you won't but it might help you actually understand my stance.
It really would help if people tried replying to what I actually post, not what they imagine I have...

Perhaps they can't believe their eyes when you post stuff? Like you trying to argue that Wenger's goal is not scrabbling into the top 4 and is instead titles and CLs. Can you see why people dismiss that instantly and assume you meant something completely different? It's kindness - they are giving you the benefit of the doubt.

[Niall_Quinn]

Just a name Terence Fletcher

But also can I ask, when you sent your reply do you think you were Rushing or Dragging?

"Granit, now think... rushing... or dragging?" SLAP!

[Özim]

Yes there was a window of opportunity after the 2014 cup win. The trophy drought was over, we had some new money and our rivals were in a state of flux. That was when our fabled "long term" approach was meant to come good, I certainly didn't expect to sweep all before us but to not even remotely challenge is really galling. Wenger had it easy for so long and conned us all during the process, now he's completely exposed as a bang average coach. I don't think history should be rewritten but it certainly makes me look back and think a bit differently and less dewy-eyed on his time with us.

Great post, totally agree with this.

[Özim]

Perhaps you could copy and paste the quote into Google? Then you'd know, wouldn't you? It's the infamous quote that the world of football seized on to rip the piss out of the tired old fool.

And your quote is meaningless in the real world. Just words tumbling out of the old goat's lying gob, as usual. So what if he says the title is more important than his Top 4 Trophy? What can we judge by his actions? A stream of Top 4 Trophies and not a sniff of a title. And as for the CL, don't make me laugh. All your quote proves is that you ignore what Wenger does, so busy are you hanging on what he says. I called him a liar and you proved it. Thanks.

The desperation to defend the fool in the face of a decade of sorry evidence, it's the reason why this has-been has lasted so long and somehow lingers on even now. Fans hanging on the ancient past and arguing tooth and nail with those who point to the present.

Words are cheap so re-hasing quotes of him saying the league and CL are top priorities is pointless, there's no evidence to back up these words at all, they're just words, anyone can say that.

Those should be our priorities of course, but what's clear is they're not, top 4 is, that's really all we're concerned about, yes of course we'd love to win the title and the CL and I'm sure everyone would love to win the lottery too, even those that don't buy a ticket, but they won't because they aren't even buying a ticket.

All I see is a guy who is very happy with getting 4th place, money keeps rolling in, he gets a pat on the back by the hierarchy, gives himself a nice pay rise and marks himself an A* for his performance for the season, a job well done.

[Özim]

That's why I posted up the image of us celebrating the Top 4 Trophy win - so there could be no doubt about contexts and the actual ambitions of this club.

Wenger has transformed us from a big club with big ambitions into a big club with small time ambitions. His goal is patently obvious and it's quite ridiculous to argue against the evidence. He boasts furiously about his Top 4 triumphs and hasn't taken any of the steps required to press on and achieve his so-called ambition to win titles and CLs. All words, almost no action. He took a couple of faltering steps away from his bullshit when he signed Ozil and Alexis. Of course look at how he handled that - sheer incompetence. Other than that, hot air. Anyone who believes him is as gullible as hell. Fool me once, fool me twice, fool me for fucking 10 years - get a grip! The man's a liar and his actions prove he has no intention of ever competing for the big prizes again. As such, he's unfit to be the manager of a club like Arsenal and, sure as hell, he wouldn't last a minute managing any other top club.

But let's carry on making excuses for him and parsing the finer details of his bullshit to provide him with favourable contexts. It's never Wenger, it's always the malcontent fans. And when we've defended him to the hilt we can casually chuck in, yeah he should be sacked, and we can get splinters up our arseholes from sitting so long on the fence.

Celebrating the "top 4 trophy" highlighted what a small time club we've become under Wenger, celebrating 4th as if we'd won the title, how embarrassing, but hey we qualified for the CL 20 million times (even if we did get utter hammered at the first sign of a decent team pretty often, but that was just to bad unfortunate, in reality the game should have ended after the 1st half of the Bayern game last season, we won that half, the 10-2 was just down to bad luck).

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

"Granit, now think... rushing... or dragging?" SLAP!

Why do you suppose I threw that chair at you Aaron?

I first saw Whiplash start of the year and thought I want this guy as coach

[rodders]

Nothing will change until Kroenke goes which probably means never.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

If it's not in any doubt, I have no idea why there is an argument over this Top 4 trophy rubbish. If it's clear he cares more about delivering results for Stan Kroenke over the fans, why the fuck would anyone want to try and defend him? He's worse than Kroenke. He has betrayed the club, fans, his players and a disgrace to football management.

Any manager really if you break it down is delivering results for their employers

Plus I suspect you don’t week after week listen to every managers press conference, I’m not saying you should (I don’t listen to Wengers half the time and this goes back long before he started pissing me off). It’s Bullshit and spin, as you and I have and most on here have accepted for a long time he’s been doing a third rate job for some considerable time, the more crap the results, the more inexplicable the decisions the more pungent the manure to defend it.

The debate today is whether Wenger is happy with how things have been going. And I would say there’s no definitive yes or no answer to that. Yes he’s happy in that he’s got his own little fiefdom in which he is free from interference and can embark on whatever vanity project he likes, who wouldn’t be happy ostensibly with that.
Is he happy that he hasn’t and seems incapable of winning the big trophies, I wouldn’t say happy but he’s hardly sufficiently angry about it....at least not any more. I do believe David Dein when he claimed he used to lock himself in his office and throw a paddy when he lost, and actually I don’t think his job was under any more pressure then than it is now arguably even less so because he’d either recently won a title or was at least pushing for it.
In a book written about Wenger, it talks about his time at Grampus Eight and he basically went into a rage at his players for losing, it wasn’t the lack of effort on the pitch it’s that they were indifferent to defeat.
And I think and I’ve said before that’s where Wenger is now, Mourinho is a cunt but one thing we learnt about him on Sunday is that he feels the sting when he loses to someone he considers a nemesis in Pep Guardiola. And Wenger had it as well, he enjoyed getting under the skin of Ferguson and hated losing to United more than any team.
If he hasn’t got that edge anymore why is he still here? Is it for money? Perhaps but one would argue if it was solely about that he still has enough reputation to get a cushy job in China. It’s the power I think that keeps him going, he knows he enjoys more influence over this club than any manager or coach has enjoyed over any club since the days of Jock Stein and Bill Nicholson.
Does he want to win things? I don’t think there is a manager in the game that doesn’t. But the years can whittle away your desire, and because there’s hardly any football people at the club you’d imagine even without the influence he has with Kroenke not too many people with the possible exception of an itchy footed Gazidis are too keen to tell him he’s done.
In terms of his relationship with the club, it’s largely a mutual admiration society....he loves them for the freedom and authority he’s allowed, and they love him because for ages he met their requirements of Top 4 finishes and now it doesn’t really matter either way.
Is he being a selfish prick with his behaviour? Of course but it wouldn’t really matter too much if he weren’t. It’s a results business....he could be the most altruistic and fan loyal manager there was but the fact is results are shit, performances are shit and that’s the bottom line....and that’s why we want him gone.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Nothing will change until Kroenke goes which probably means never.

I don’t necessarily think that’s true

Kroenkes one redeeming feature is that he doesn’t give a fuck about how the club is run. If Wenger goes, there is absolutely no way he will look to have input on who the next guy is. Why would he, doesn’t give a fuck.’

Now I’m not Gazidis’ biggest fan but I suspect he probably has the same reasonable idea any of us do as to who is a decent manager and who isn’t. We know Wenger is on ridiculous wages that would be a pull to big names as would the potential to turn round the fortunes of an under achieving club.

If he appoints A director of football which makes his own role in the football side of things even smaller, even better

It won’t happen overnight, but I’m relatively ok in theory with life post Wenger. It could be a fuck up but it could just as easily be very exciting new chapter

[Niall_Quinn]

Nothing will change until Kroenke goes which probably means never.

It seems to me things are changing - around Wenger. Despite him. Non-Wengerites are being hired. People who don't need to pander. Wenger's only response is to boast the football world knows him better than them. Not surprised. He's infamous.