Summer transfer joy and happiness

[Özim]

Maybe? If we thought he was worth it?

I mean we supposedly offered 126m for Mbappe and 90m for Lemar, so I don't think money is necessarily a problem...

I don't think we offered 126 million for Mbappe at all, that was just speculation.

We did offer 90 odd million for Lemar but that was on the basis of the profit we had made and selling Alexiz for 50 - 60 million which covered the cost of Lemar. We've spent that now.

Don't think we have bags of money to spend personally.

[Marc Overmars]

Maybe? If we thought he was worth it?

I mean we supposedly offered 126m for Mbappe and 90m for Lemar, so I don't think money is necessarily a problem...

True but then we also had the prospect of losing our best player for 60m and the impact that would have to consider.

I'd love it if we were a little more carefree and had a real interest in Dembele but given how this club is run, I think that's fantasy land.

[Power n Glory]

Yeah, my hopes for Ramsey are more about seeing him in a role that suits him, within a system that suits him, and surrounded by a group of players that allow him to be himself without leaving gaping holes in the midfield whenever goes marauding off somewhere. I don't see him suddenly discovering extra levels of tactical and positional discipline - I see him as more of an all-action player who needs to be everywhere at once, so for me it's more about finding our Alonso and Mascherano to compliment his natural Gerrard style of play: the guys who provide the solid structure and shape and tactical nous while Ramsey charges about and doubles-up as the extra man pretty much everywhere.

As you say, the major reservation has to be how long we can rely on him for before he breaks down? Potentially great while he's fit, but should we really be building a system around a player who could easily be out for half of every season?

Then again, maybe I'm worrying about nothing under our new coaching setup? It's hard to shake off 22 years of Wengerised thinking, and my first thought is still to view things in terms of a best XI and a one-size-fits-all system, with very little rotation - maybe (hopefully) Emery has multiple shapes and systems planned, in which case Ramsey's fitness may not be the major issue I'm fearing?

This midfield combination issue has gone on for ages and just snowballed into bigger problems. I have no idea how Emery will solve it. Good post. The part about having to find a Mascherano and Alonso combination just reminds me of some the earlier debates about our midfield. I was just about to say Ramsey flourished when we played a Coquelin and Arteta combo but that’s not right because we had signed Ozil and also still played Flamini. We were playing all sorts of combinations. Arteta/Ramsey/Ozil….. Flamini/Ramsey/Ozil…..Flamini/Wilshere/Ramsey….Ramsey had a hot start to the season and was scoring regardless of who he played with. It was a brief purple patch in his career.

We need him to be able to perform regardless of who he plays with otherwise we get into bigger problems. We haven’t solved who Xhaka can play with and we have the same issue with the type of player Ozil needs to play with in the midfield. It’s a mess. We really can’t afford to have specialist midfielders that only have one core function to their game. Ramsey really has to get back to doing more than just marauding forward and looking for goals. If we have to surround such midfielders with one or two other players to compensate for their flaws, they should be resigned to the bench and only called upon for special occasions where the conditions suit their style of play. Definitely agree with the last sentence of your post. Will be interesting to see what Emery does.

[I am invisible]

I think if you're wanting to offer him a package that is actually appealing enough for him to sign a contract, make him captain and a key part of the way we play most or at least a substantial amount of the time, then his injury record is a major issue.

As arseblog suggests the heralded IRS and their credibility really come into play in situations like these, because none of the other things to date were particularly tricky. At least ostensibly....ie Sokratis, Torreira, Litchensteiner....Leno. The manager as well of course, but he doesn't have the all encompassing role operationally that his predecessor had.

Given we have lost Santi (no real difference of late in reality) Wilshere and may still (even after the English new transfer deadline) lose Ramsey I really wish we'd managed to sign Banega or somebody like Seri.

I'm hoping Dembele is lost down the back of Barce's sofa so that we can pounce, then that will make 2 players this summer I'm genuinely really looking forward to seeing.

I don't know, I don't think the situation is all that tricky to manage? Set a limit on we're prepared to offer, set a cut-off point for negotiations, and have list of buyers and replacements lined up, if we can't agree terms. Might end up having to move quickly, but that shouldn't be anything that these guys can't deal easily handle? Christ, we usually do all of our shopping in the last 6 hours of the window, so having another 2 weeks to work with must feel like a real luxury!

I'm not unduly worried about losing Ramsey on top of Wilshere and Cazorla though. Jack and Santi's combined PL appearances have amounted to paltry 30 games over the last 2 seasons (and a lot of those will probably have been from the bench), so they represent no new loss or sudden shock for us - we've been effectively coping with them for a long time now. We've also added Torreira and Guendouzi, and I still consider AMN as new option, as we only really started to use him seriously in the last few games of last season. Then there's Iwobi, who might be able to do a job there with a bit of coaching? We're already well up on CM options from where we were, with or without Ramsey. If he stays then great! If he goes then I expect we'll sign a strong enough replacement. Even if we have to wait until January, I think we'll be able to get cope...

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

Dembele can play on either side, talk is of Malcom on one side, Dembele on the other. Don't think they'll sell him, they need to add rather than lose players especially with Suarez and Messi in their 30s. Plus we have no chance as we'll never stump up the money as they'll want most of their cash back, this is a pipedream I reckon.

I only envisage it as a loan with an option to buy for what is still a stupidly large fee.

I'd be interested in whether or not people think we can make the funds available for the transfer of a special player as this was the same basis in which I was arguing signing Oblak who lest we forget has already unreservedly proven his quality already and isn't a talent yet to prove himself.

The ability to make the funds available in the right circumstances is a very different argument to whether we should do.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

This midfield combination issue has gone on for ages and just snowballed into bigger problems. I have no idea how Emery will solve it. Good post. The part about having to find a Mascherano and Alonso combination just reminds me of some the earlier debates about our midfield. I was just about to say Ramsey flourished when we played a Coquelin and Arteta combo but that’s not right because we had signed Ozil and also still played Flamini. We were playing all sorts of combinations. Arteta/Ramsey/Ozil….. Flamini/Ramsey/Ozil…..Flamini/Wilshere/Ramsey….Ramsey had a hot start to the season and was scoring regardless of who he played with. It was a brief purple patch in his career.

We need him to be able to perform regardless of who he plays with otherwise we get into bigger problems. We haven’t solved who Xhaka can play with and we have the same issue with the type of player Ozil needs to play with in the midfield. It’s a mess. We really can’t afford to have specialist midfielders that only have one core function to their game. Ramsey really has to get back to doing more than just marauding forward and looking for goals. If we have to surround such midfielders with one or two other players to compensate for their flaws, they should be resigned to the bench and only called upon for special occasions where the conditions suit their style of play. Definitely agree with the last sentence of your post. Will be interesting to see what Emery does.

...yup, my Xhaka stance. UNLESS, what they give to the team is such that that is worth while.....and Ramsey would need to prove that under this regime.

On the basis of the potential for it, I am open to Invisible's idea of Torreira and AMN as a pair with Ramsey ahead.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I don't know, I don't think the situation is all that tricky to manage? Set a limit on we're prepared to offer, set a cut-off point for negotiations, and have list of buyers and replacements lined up, if we can't agree terms. Might end up having to move quickly, but that shouldn't be anything that these guys can't deal easily handle? Christ, we usually do all of our shopping in the last 6 hours of the window, so having another 2 weeks to work with must feel like a real luxury!

I'm not unduly worried about losing Ramsey on top of Wilshere and Cazorla though. Jack and Santi's combined PL appearances have amounted to paltry 30 games over the last 2 seasons (and a lot of those will probably have been from the bench), so they represent no new loss or sudden shock for us - we've been effectively coping with them for a long time now. We've also added Torreira and Guendouzi, and I still consider AMN as new option, as we only really started to use him seriously in the last few games of last season. Then there's Iwobi, who might be able to do a job there with a bit of coaching? We're already well up on CM options from where we were, with or without Ramsey. If he stays then great! If he goes then I expect we'll sign a strong enough replacement. Even if we have to wait until January, I think we'll be able to get cope...

It's never a question of numbers though....always quality. Santi, Wilshere and Ramsey going is more representative of the potential in quality we will lose in total. That quality or potential isn't replaced with AMN and Iwobi.....certainly not from an attacking point of view.

We are kind of already in make or break territory, so really we should be flogging or bringing in new faces in now if we have designs of behaving differently to the old regime. Personally I'm happy to see it go to the wire but will be pretty annoyed if the season starts, he hasn't signed or we're down a Ramsey with no replacement and/or no quality winger.

[Marc Overmars]

I think it's all strong arm tactics from his agent who's trying to get Ramsey the best deal possible. Could be wrong but he doesn't strike me as someone who's itching to leave and I think he sees himself as an important member of the team.

[Blink 1nce Quince 2wice]

I don't think they're just playing poker though. I do believe Ramsey is willing to leave... even if he isn't actively setting out to make it happen.

[I am invisible]

True but then we also had the prospect of losing our best player for 60m and the impact that would have to consider.

I'd love it if we were a little more carefree and had a real interest in Dembele but given how this club is run, I think that's fantasy land.

The income from the new TV deals has been the real game-changer - absolutely crazy how much it's increased over the last 5 years. In 2013 Man U made £60.8m for winning the Prem - that's when it started to change. One year later, Cardiff made £62m for finishing bottom! And it's just gone on and on from there. Last season both Manchester clubs raked in close to 150m each for finishing 1st and 2nd, and we made a tidy £142m for finishing 6th! The money is definitely there, IMO (especially if the rumours of our cash reserves are in any way accurate).

You're probably right though - I expect that money will somehow be accounted out of existence or disappear into Kroenke's pocket...