EU Referendum

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

Not sure where this idea of having to vote FOR something to make a vote valid has sprung up from.

You'll soon run out of fingers and toes if you count the number of Labour voters who vote to get the Tories out - That's it. That's their WHOLE rationale. And vice versa. Then there are a million and one other reasons why people vote, or don't vote. That's another favourite of the complacent voting class, the idea that if you don't vote then you don't care.

Well a vote FOR anyone that has been placed in front of us for as many decades as I can remember is a vote for: Theft, war, inequality, injustice. And that's not an opinion, it's a fact.

If you voted for Blair then YOU are responsible for the millions of lives extinguished as a result and you can lie to yourself all you want but the facts don't change. If you voted for Cameron then YOU are responsible for all the dead Libyans and Syrians, YOU are responsible for the weakest members of society being targeted and robbed. Full stop. Carry on lying to yourself by all means.

And if you voted FOR May then... Oh now... wait a moment. An elephant has just pitched up. We have a PM that no fucker voted FOR and yet we queue up to criticise people who voted FOR their independence and AGAINST further unity with a European superstate.

It's not an invalid choice, but it's a bit like ordering Satay Chicken from a chinese takeaway rather than your usual chow mein even though you have a peanut allergy because it sounds better. It's just not an informed choice.

Given that your eligibility to vote rests on your age and being a citizen of the country in which you vote, no of course there is no actual expectation to make an informed choice.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

I didn't say it wasn't a valid vote, it's just a bit depressing that people just voted against something without any actual idea of what they were voting for. At least if you vote against Trump, say, you know what you're getting instead. No-one had any idea what Brexit looked like, least of all Boris, and still doesn't.

To be fair on NQ, I would argue that there is nothing new in people not making informed choices when voting.

But actually i think what it is more telling, is that people do not articulate themselves well as to their rationale but the voting trends suggest that the way people vote is not random chaos.

Heavy trend towards people who voted Brexit towards a dislike for social liberalism, they feel that society is too permissive, should be more Christian, should be harsher punishments for crime - support for the death penalty and corporal punishment.

Basically when asked specific questions the impression they have is of a country without values, and that cultural dilution adds to this.

That and EU Law has a chaffing effect on British law and allows too much leniency on n'er do wells

[Letters]

I didn't say it was anything new either.

Oh, and obviously voting for a certain party does not make me responsible for anything that party does in power, unless that thing was in their manifesto.

[Coney]

I didn't say it was anything new either.

Oh, and obviously voting for a certain party does not make me responsible for anything that party does in power, unless that thing was in their manifesto.

How many people read the party manifestos? If you vote for a party then you DO have some responsibility for what they do. For instance, if you vote Tory and they then remove benefits from sick people even though that is not in the manifesto in so many words, given what the party represents in general, you could not wash your hands of it. Similarly if you vote for a Corbyn administration and after they win (yeah, ok) he prevents our troops from defending some people from a terrorist action, you are similarly responsible for us not acting to try and prevent it. (OK - shit example but you see what I mean).

(There are also the 'I didn't vote so none of this is my fault' brigade. Sorry, inaction is as much a decision as action. If you avoid making a choice, that is still a choice and if there are consequences, you can't complain.)

[Niall_Quinn]

How many people read the party manifestos? If you vote for a party then you DO have some responsibility for what they do. For instance, if you vote Tory and they then remove benefits from sick people even though that is not in the manifesto in so many words, given what the party represents in general, you could not wash your hands of it. Similarly if you vote for a Corbyn administration and after they win (yeah, ok) he prevents our troops from defending some people from a terrorist action, you are similarly responsible for us not acting to try and prevent it. (OK - shit example but you see what I mean).

(There are also the 'I didn't vote so none of this is my fault' brigade. Sorry, inaction is as much a decision as action. If you avoid making a choice, that is still a choice and if there are consequences, you can't complain.)

Agree that a non-vote does not represent absolution. But it does at least withhold endorsement and surely that's the very least decent people can do? But the idea you can't complain because you do or don't get involved in an election process is obviously flawed. Anyone can complain about anything whenever they wish. The only useful measure of those complaints is the effect they have. Those committed to confronting the injustices of the state cannot be legitimately discounted simply because they refused to endorse the state. More importantly, those who endorsed the state have a duty to complain considering the state's vast abuses which were surely never part of the contract agreed upon? Their mistake is believing complaints are only legitimate when framed within the electoral process. How convenient for those breaking the contract.

[Globalgunner]

Following the High court decision, (Govt May appeal, see what i did there?). They will no doubt lose IMO. What happens next?. Will they allow MPs a free vote or allow a free debate. Moreover what will be the question put to MP`s. To Brexit or not to Brexit? or will it be simply a question of timing. Im pretty sure if they allowed a free vote on whether to trigger A-50 or not the answer will likely be no. Im sure I read it somewhere that parliament is not necessarily bound by the results of any referendum.

[Niall_Quinn]

Following the High court decision, (Govt May appeal, see what i did there?). They will no doubt lose IMO. What happens next?. Will they allow MPs a free vote or allow a free debate. Moreover what will be the question put to MP`s. To Brexit or not to Brexit? or will it be simply a question of timing. Im pretty sure if they allowed a free vote on whether to trigger A-50 or not the answer will likely be no. Im sure I read it somewhere that parliament is not necessarily bound by the results of any referendum.

They aren't bound by their election pledges so I can't see a problem with them ignoring the decision of the electorate in a referendum. It's only the pretence of democracy that must be maintained and I feel they can do that if they choose their words carefully.

[GP]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...aty-mcboatface

[Niall_Quinn]

http://www.newstatesman.com/politics...aty-mcboatface

These cunts will take their votes every 5 years and claim legitimacy on the back of them. Apparently the will of the uninformed, unwashed plebs is valid in this respect. But when the wrong answer comes back from a referendum then the voice of the people is to be mocked as uninformed, petty, bigoted. Well if the people are so dumb and can't be trusted, why don't all the cunt politicians resign? Surely they can't hold legitimate office if racist idiots put them there?

[Goonermerree]

These cunts will take their votes every 5 years and claim legitimacy on the back of them. Apparently the will of the uninformed, unwashed plebs is valid in this respect. But when the wrong answer comes back from a referendum then the voice of the people is to be mocked as uninformed, petty, bigoted. Well if the people are so dumb and can't be trusted, why don't all the cunt politicians resign? Surely they can't hold legitimate office if racist idiots put them there?