Match Thread: Ukraine vs Russia.

[Niall_Quinn]

You talked about IQ.
Come on, dude. It's this sort of argument that lost the Brexit vote - the idea that people who wanted to leave the EU were racist thickos. It's no wonder Brexiters didn't react well to that.


Except I don't think the MSM are saying the first of those. Certainly there have been "incidents" - the theatre and wasn't there a school? And that's not great.
But I haven't got a sense from the media that cities are being flattened like they were in WWII.
There has been bombing in Kyiv - our dev lead's family live there and heard it. But I read in the media that Russian troops had withdrawn from Kyiv before I read about Johnson's visit, so...

You do go on about the WMD thing. You understand that the media were reporting on a dossier produced by the government?
I'd agree that hysterical headlines like The Sun's "HE'S GOT 'EM SO LET'S GET 'IM" are unhelpful, but the MSM were simply reporting what the dossier said. And it did say that.
It was also the MSM who reported on it when it was found to be a pile of horseshit. Is your argument that they shouldn't have reported on it at all until they could verify it?
I don't know how they could have done that in any reasonable timeframe.

I'm not saying the MSM are bastions of truth, but much of what they write is actually accurate and there's more oversight on them than there is on some bloke who starts a blog or YouTube channel.
Blindly believing everything the MSM write is not helpful but neither is blindly believing it to be false because its from the MSM.

I always feel you overestimate your discernment in these matters, and your underlying distrust of government leads you to wrong conclusions.
As I've noted, discerning truth these days is incredibly difficult and I believe the internet has made it harder than ever.

This is rich beyond appetite. The guy who swam naked in the thicko Brexit swamp is now pointing to it as a cautionary tale.

I love this forum. For all the wrong reasons.

[Niall_Quinn]

You do go on about the WMD thing.

Now if that was my child I just can't encapsulate how I'd respond. But one of my first targets would be the propagandists who made this not only acceptable but a duty.

You have to be stone cold evil to keep biting that worm, only taking breath to issue apologies.

[Globalgunner]

The WMD "thing" was a big deal if you were Iraqi. I suppose he as usual believes it was an honest mistake especially since every western spy service believed it too. The government's heart was in the right place. Has anyone forgot that Iraqi boy that literally lost all his limbs in the aftermath of shock and awe?. I haven't. I think about that poor child quite often.

[Niall_Quinn]

The WMD "thing" was a big deal if you were Iraqi. I suppose he as usual believes it was an honest mistake especially since every western spy service believed it too. The government's heart was in the right place. Has anyone forgot that Iraqi boy that literally lost all his limbs in the aftermath of shock and awe?. I haven't. I think about that poor child quite often.

Last I heard Iraqis aren't white or European or Ukrainian.

So what's you point?

[Niall_Quinn]

The WMD "thing" was a big deal if you were Iraqi. I suppose he as usual believes it was an honest mistake especially since every western spy service believed it too. The government's heart was in the right place. Has anyone forgot that Iraqi boy that literally lost all his limbs in the aftermath of shock and awe?. I haven't. I think about that poor child quite often.

Scott Ritter is still doing the rounds, you know? He's the sudden "online groomer" who had enough knowledge to debunk the war machine before the limbs started flying in Iraq.

Now he reckons the west is using Ukraine as a proxy battlefield. Fucking idiot. You have to be some sort of traitor to stick to you guns despite all the randomly generated news.

No matter how hard they try to wipe them out, there will always be humans who are human.

It's a bit depressing. The sheer amount of effort I poured into trying to stop that war, in my own individual way. Day and night. And here we are. The same playbook. The same voices. The same cheers from the sidelines. Lessons learned indeed. The guilty glorified again and offering their sage and lucrative advice.

And there will be a next time, exactly as all the other times. Presented as if it is the first time. And when you point to those people they will label you a traitor to humanity. With a straight face and not a thought of their own.

So we have to support those few humans who are actually human. It's desperate, it seems like a hopelessly lost fight, but maybe it's enough by a razor's edge.

[Globalgunner]

There is something significant buried In the bowels of that steel plant in Mariupul. Macron's is beside himself with anxiety. Something more than just personnel I believe. Hope it comes out before next weeks 2nd round in France

[Letters]

The WMD "thing" was a big deal if you were Iraqi.

I didn't say it wasn't a big deal, my point is People Like You ™ hold it up as an example of the MSM lying to us.
Actually they were reporting on a government dossier, the media didn't write it. And when it was shown to be horseshit they reported that too.

I suppose he as usual believes it was an honest mistake especially since every western spy service believed it too. The government's heart was in the right place.

Now you're just straw manning.

[Niall_Quinn]

I didn't say it wasn't a big deal, my point is People Like You ™ hold it up as an example of the MSM lying to us.
Actually they were reporting on a government dossier, the media didn't write it. And when it was shown to be horseshit they reported that too.


Now you're just straw manning.

Obviously you don't know what the role of the free press is supposed to be. The very reason they were given exceptional freedom.

Abused. Apologised for. Profusely and at every opportunity.

[Globalgunner]

Like I said , he believes it was an honest mistake....anyone in their place could have made the same. They reported what they were told to report. Simples

Today, the Watergate thing would never have been exposed. Instead of digging up facts and uncovering wrongdoing. Those reporters would have waited for Jen Psaki`s latest briefing and told the world what really happened.

Apart from the very real fact that today no reporter who values his job would go poking his nose in stuff that the paper`s owner has not sanctioned. Investigate his friends?. Dont you dare!

[Niall_Quinn]

There is something significant buried In the bowels of that steel plant in Mariupul. Macron's is beside himself with anxiety. Something more than just personnel I believe. Hope it comes out before next weeks 2nd round in France

Haven't heard that one. But there always is. Whenever these fuckers play there are at lest 100 games at stake, all impossibly interwoven. Hence the single focus nature of the news.

This is probably my least scrutinised war. Seen it too many times now.