Here's where we are.

[I am invisible]

Partey is a beautiful player, man. The way he can take a pass and turn past a man is brilliant. He then tries difficult passes that no one else does. He also inexplicably gives the ball away far more than he should buy We're utterly shit without him.

Good summary of his strengths and value to the side

This is one of those changes to the game that I don't think a lot of the football-viewing world has fully caught up to yet. When people think of the guy at the base of the midfield a lot of minds still automatically go to an energetic, terrier-type, like a Makelele or a Kante, but that's not really the job any more - most of that aggressive pressing and harrying and ball-winning is now done by the forwards in a high press, and the DMs are now the ones getting chased down! The job has become more about being able to take the ball under pressure, turn a marker, wriggle out of tight spaces, and break lines, either through ball-carrying or quick distribution. Don't get me wrong, TP is still a very good ball-winner when he has to be, but it's not really his super-power and it's not what makes him so effective in that role - it's actually a fairly minor part of his game.

Whether you could call his time here a success is up for debate - it's taken him a while to find a role that he really owns (probably more of a systemic issue than an individual one) and he's spent as much time out injured as he has available, but when he's on it then he really is immense and does the job of two men.

[mandela8]

Good summary of his strengths and value to the side

This is one of those changes to the game that I don't think a lot of the football-viewing world has fully caught up to yet. When people think of the guy at the base of the midfield a lot of minds still automatically go to an energetic, terrier-type, like a Makelele or a Kante, but that's not really the job any more - most of that aggressive pressing and harrying and ball-winning is now done by the forwards in a high press, and the DMs are now the ones getting chased down! The job has become more about being able to take the ball under pressure, turn a marker, wriggle out of tight spaces, and break lines, either through ball-carrying or quick distribution. Don't get me wrong, TP is still a very good ball-winner when he has to be, but it's not really his super-power and it's not what makes him so effective in that role - it's actually a fairly minor part of his game.

Whether you could call his time here a success is up for debate - it's taken him a while to find a role that he really owns (probably more of a systemic issue than an individual one) and he's spent as much time out injured as he has available, but when he's on it then he really is immense and does the job of two men.

Exactly this.

I've been careful not to say he's been a success here, despite rating him extremely highly, I don't think he has yet.

Between injuries and a dysfunctional system I think he's struggled at times but when we moved to the single pivot (fuck me that sounds noncey as fuck) he really came into his own and the whole team worked through him. It meant pushing Xhaka up a little, which he's fuckin shite at, but he's fuckin shite at everything, but I think this is the way Arteta wants to play. He's alluded to it before. So, hopefully, Partey as the single DM receiving from the defence then having options like Vieira and Odegaard ahead of him giving us far more options/sets/patterns to progress the ball up the field.

Someone like Tielemans also fits into this too...he might even be the Xhaka replacement and Vieira is apparently pretty versatile so could fill in there, for Odegaard or even wide. Purely guessing here, obvs.

[Marc Overmars]

The Saka stuff is just ridiculous. It's pure mob mentality at this point and there's literally zero objectivity around him.

He's the one constant in a pretty inept attack. That's telling on it's own. Not that I attribute it entirely to him but he's a huge part of it.

His decision making is terrible. Very slow to make a decision and when he does it's usually the wrong one. Laca turned to absolute shit but the service (lack of) was a huge part of it.

His directness is abysmal. The number of great chances that gets to Saka who then takes an age to get the ball out of his feet is staggering. I've never seen a player fail to get a shot away as often as he does. Or a player who has so many blocked shots, because he takes so long to get it off. Can you even post clips on this thread. A great example was the home Wolves game. I think Odegaard played him through on the edge of the box there was no one within 10 yards of him. He lost the ball. One example of dozens.

His shooting is the worst I've ever seen in professional fitba. The number of shots he scuffs is actually mental.

People claim he's great but I challenge anyone to actually give me examples of a few games he's dominated. No one can. Like I said, I've watched him play shockingly only to get man of the match and have everyone fawn over him. Legit bizarre.

I get he's an arsenal boy and seems really nice a likeable but people are just blinded by this. It's quite the phenomenon, really.

Anyway...I'll leave that challenge open for anyone who thinks they can tell me when he's actually been as good as people seem to think he is.

I think you’re right to some extent given the nature to overrate and deify young home grown talent. The kid is only 20 though and playing in the most blunt Arsenal team in modern history, the reliance on him to deliver consistently is ridiculous when he’s got so much to learn. Hopefully with 2 or 3 polished signings this summer to reshape the attack we will see a more functional front line.

[mandela8]

I think you’re to some extent given the nature to overrate and deify young home grown talent. The kid is only 20 though and playing in the most blunt Arsenal team in modern history, the reliance on him to deliver consistently is ridiculous when he’s got so much to learn. Hopefully with 2 or 3 polished signings this summer to reshape the attack we will see a more functional front line.

That's actually pretty fair, man. And, despite my criticism of him I clearly want him to make me look stupid as fuck. Getting better players around him, particularly a better striker could help him a lot. I'm not sure how that helps his lack of directness or woeful shooting but it could certainly help with his decision making. Here's hoping.

You've said yourself though, it's the most blunt arsenal team in modern history, which it clearly is, but he's been the one constant in it. People don't seem to reconcile these two facts at all, man. Blows my mind.

His effort going back the way is pathetic anaw. I've naw even mentioned that.

[HCZ_Reborn]

The Saka stuff is just ridiculous. It's pure mob mentality at this point and there's literally zero objectivity around him.

He's the one constant in a pretty inept attack. That's telling on it's own. Not that I attribute it entirely to him but he's a huge part of it.

His decision making is terrible. Very slow to make a decision and when he does it's usually the wrong one. Laca turned to absolute shit but the service (lack of) was a huge part of it.

His directness is abysmal. The number of great chances that gets to Saka who then takes an age to get the ball out of his feet is staggering. I've never seen a player fail to get a shot away as often as he does. Or a player who has so many blocked shots, because he takes so long to get it off. Can you even post clips on this thread. A great example was the home Wolves game. I think Odegaard played him through on the edge of the box there was no one within 10 yards of him. He lost the ball. One example of dozens.

His shooting is the worst I've ever seen in professional fitba. The number of shots he scuffs is actually mental.

People claim he's great but I challenge anyone to actually give me examples of a few games he's dominated. No one can. Like I said, I've watched him play shockingly only to get man of the match and have everyone fawn over him. Legit bizarre.

I get he's an arsenal boy and seems really nice a likeable but people are just blinded by this. It's quite the phenomenon, really.

Anyway...I'll leave that challenge open for anyone who thinks they can tell me when he's actually been as good as people seem to think he is.

You’re entitled to whatever opinion you like, just as everyone else is entitled to think you’re a bit silly

The fact that you are attributing us being blunt in attack to Saka is daft imo. There are two key factors, one we’ve been playing without a consistent goal scorer and two we don’t have any creativity in central midfield (Smith Rowe and Odegaard are not central midfielders they play behind the striker) and this is why I will be up in arms if we don’t sign either Tielemans or an equivalent player…someone who is comfortable taking the ball from defensive positions into offensive position.
Xhaka is too one footed and too often doesn’t show for the ball, Partey has tried this but not comfortable playing through the press…Lokonga I think given time will develop into a player who can do this but we need a finished article.
Saka’s finishing isn’t brilliant at times he’s been known to scuff efforts or guilty of indecision, but there’s a world of difference between that and being shit….if Odegaard provides an assist it’s a result of linkup play with Saka. It’s not Saka that goes missing in games it’s Odegaard, if you want to point fingers at a player for amount of missed chances it would be Martinelli.
For a twenty year old player he’s done remarkably well, we clearly need more up front but to suggest he individually he’s not good enough or is overrated because he’s not single handedly carrying us like Atlas is ridiculous.

[mandela8]

You’re entitled to whatever opinion you like, just as everyone else is entitled to think you’re a bit silly

The fact that you are attributing us being blunt in attack to Saka is daft imo. There are two key factors, one we’ve been playing without a consistent goal scorer and two we don’t have any creativity in central midfield (Smith Rowe and Odegaard are not central midfielders they play behind the striker) and this is why I will be up in arms if we don’t sign either Tielemans or an equivalent player…someone who is comfortable taking the ball from defensive positions into offensive position.
Xhaka is too one footed and too often doesn’t show for the ball, Partey has tried this but not comfortable playing through the press…Lokonga I think given time will develop into a player who can do this but we need a finished article.
Saka’s finishing isn’t brilliant at times he’s been known to scuff efforts or guilty of indecision, but there’s a world of difference between that and being shit….if Odegaard provides an assist it’s a result of linkup play with Saka. It’s not Saka that goes missing in games it’s Odegaard, if you want to point fingers at a player for amount of missed chances it would be Martinelli.
For a twenty year old player he’s done remarkably well, we clearly need more up front but to suggest he individually he’s not good enough or is overrated because he’s not single handedly carrying us like Atlas is ridiculous.

Quite the straw man you've built there. Can tell you have a really small penis.

The key factors in Saka's abysmal shooting, shocking decisions and absence of directness is actually the fact he's shit at shooting, crap at decision making and just lacks fuckin gumption, man. I also strongly suspect that, due to idiotic fitba fans hyping him up beyond all belief, that he thinks he's already made it.

That said, at no point have I attributed all blame to him for our lack of potency. I've clearly said that Laca turned to absolute shit, Martinelli has no end product and ESR just didn't kick on at all after Xmas.

But throughout it all, when Auba was playing and we were shit, when Laca was playing and we were shit and when Martinelli and ESR we're rotating and we were shit Saka was the constant. And he was shit.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Quite the straw man you've built there. Can tell you have a really small penis.

The key factors in Saka's abysmal shooting, shocking decisions and absence of directness is actually the fact he's shit at shooting, crap at decision making and just lacks fuckin gumption, man. I also strongly suspect that, due to idiotic fitba fans hyping him up beyond all belief, that he thinks he's already made it.

That said, at no point have I attributed all blame to him for our lack of potency. I've clearly said that Laca turned to absolute shit, Martinelli has no end product and ESR just didn't kick on at all after Xmas.

But throughout it all, when Auba was playing and we were shit, when Laca was playing and we were shit and when Martinelli and ESR we're rotating and we were shit Saka was the constant. And he was shit.

Ah classic projection with the small knob comment. I’m sorry you can’t satisfy your boyfriend

No I’m disputing the fact that he is shit at shooting, and even if it was his goal tally is good enough at the moment that it wouldn’t really matter. His shots on target percentage is on par with everyone else in the team, and actually has taken on more shots on goal than anyone else around him, has three times as many direct assists as Odegaard.

Again it depends what level you think he should be at, is he at the level of the top players in the premier league? No, will he definitely become one of the top players in the premier league? Again no, at the moment he’s still very much in the potential stage.

And when you keep saying he’s shit? Compared to who, who has consistently performed better than him this season?

No he’s not a player who is going to single handedly win us game week in week out, but he’s the best homegrown talent we’ve produced in a long time, is easily good enough for the England set up and for me the only time he was shit was because he was overused.

But please if you want to keep making empty assertions to make up for your own microcephalic penis feel welcome

[mandela8]

Ah classic projection with the small knob comment. I’m sorry you can’t satisfy your boyfriend

No I’m disputing the fact that he is shit at shooting, and even if it was his goal tally is good enough at the moment that it wouldn’t really matter. His shots on target percentage is on par with everyone else in the team, and actually has taken on more shots on goal than anyone else around him, has three times as many direct assists as Odegaard.

Again it depends what level you think he should be at, is he at the level of the top players in the premier league? No, will he definitely become one of the top players in the premier league? Again no, at the moment he’s still very much in the potential stage.

And when you keep saying he’s shit? Compared to who, who has consistently performed better than him this season?

No he’s not a player who is going to single handedly win us game week in week out, but he’s the best homegrown talent we’ve produced in a long time, is easily good enough for the England set up and for me the only time he was shit was because he was overused.

But please if you want to keep making empty assertions to make up for your own microcephalic penis feel welcome

Struck a nerve with your wee tadger here, eh?

Anyway, glad we agree on him being shite at shooting. Difficult not to though, even for blinkered arsenal fans.

As for comparing him...I'm not. I'm judging him on his merits and how he impacts games. I put a challenge out there to anyone to name a couple of games he's dominated but no one has responded. Weird that, eh?

Regardless, it's others who are comparing him against the rest of the squad. Multiple people stating that "he is our best player", ffs. Anyone who thinks Saka is a better footballer than Ramsdale, Tierney, Tommy, Gabriel, Partey or Odegaard has absolutely no fuckin business commenting on fitba, ffs. Beyond ridiculous. That's objective fact anaw. Naw even a matter of opinion.

I'd actually have Saka behind Martinelli and ESR too, in terms of both current ability and potential, fwiw.

But Saka is the Golden Boy and objectivity be damned.

[IBK]

I think you’re right to some extent given the nature to overrate and deify young home grown talent. The kid is only 20 though and playing in the most blunt Arsenal team in modern history, the reliance on him to deliver consistently is ridiculous when he’s got so much to learn. Hopefully with 2 or 3 polished signings this summer to reshape the attack we will see a more functional front line.

Yep - good comments. My tuppence worth - Saka is popular because he plays eye-catching football - and we all like that 'electric' high-octane stuff. Often the very best footballers are those who might not necessarily do play at 100 miles an hour or do the tricks and flicks - but those who see the game better than anyone else, and understand exactly what they need to do before other players - executing with maximum efficiency. As you say - Saka is also the victim of the idolisation culture you have identified.

But he is a very good player IMO nonetheless - more so when you consider his tender age/inexperience and our lack of senior players (Partey aside) able to dominate the opposition and provide a proper platform around him. We should not be relying on him as much as we do. It's no accident that the likes of Klopp admire him (and reportedly sees Saka as a future replacement for Salah/Mane). I think that Saka would have progressed more had he not been lamentably overplayed and given no protection from the rough housing he receives in every game.

Other players highlighted in the OP:

ESR - I love him but he hasn't progressed since he first made it into the first team. I'm hoping that this is due to injuries/knocks that can be ironed out longer term but he is a worry for me.

Xhaka - everyone on here knows my controversial view that he is better than his reputation amongst many Arsenal fans, a great professional and will normally give you a 7/10. I think its unfair that he has become a lightening rod for those frustrated by our years outside the top 4 and castigated for what he is not rather than what he is...but we have done this to death.

Ben White had a better season than many think...IMO he is burdened by a price tag that has been measured by the standards of 3 years ago, not the current transfer market for British players.

Odegard is a genius - and one of the types of players whose reading of the game is just better than almost anyone else. Can't wait to see him working with a top class striker.

Martinelli is one of those eye-catchers mentioned above, but badly needs to find consistent end product.

Saliba - I worry about him being seen as the next messiah. I really do. We cannot and should not ignore how good our defence was last season when we had our first choice back 5 available.

...and my final comment (again) despite the criticism we finished 2 points off top 4 with the most callow team in the league. My wish is that our team could be evaluated as against reality, not perfection or projection as to what the competition will do.

[I am invisible]

Saka is exceptional for a 20 year old - an absolute dream player for any coach.

It's not just about his output in terms of goals and assists - it's the amount of tactical flex he gives you in a single player without having to make any changes. You need someone to create, he can do that. You need goals, he can do that. You need someone to dribble, he can do that. You need someone to drop into midfield and transition the play, he can do that. You need someone on the left / right / centre - he's got it covered. You need someone to fill in as an 8 in midfield - Saka. You need an emergency LB - Saka. He attacks and defends and does any and every job he's asked to do equally well, and he does it with a fantastic attitude.

Again, this kid is 20 - 20 years old! Give him another 2 or 3 years and, as others have said, put the right support around him (some strong, direct competition so he can occasionally have a rest, a decent striker to finish the chances he creates, a squad with more depth so he doesn't have to keep filling in everywhere, etc) and he'll develop into one of the strongest players in the league.