Jimmy Carr

[Joker]

Taxation is part of the social contract; countries like Sweden have high marginal rates of taxation but don't seem to have such a problem in terms of avoidance or opposition to taxes. They can subsequently fund their large welfare state, and consequently have a higher quality of life with better infrastructure, schools, hospitals, etc. Since the 80s here we've become much more invidividualistic in this country, and more willing to think of ourselves in isolation from our social obligations. I blame Thatcher tbh; she promoted the "there is no such thing as society" mantra and we're now reaping the benefits.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

Taxation is part of the social contract; countries like Sweden have high marginal rates of taxation but don't seem to have such a problem in terms of avoidance or opposition to taxes. They can subsequently fund their large welfare state, and consequently have a higher quality of life with better infrastructure, schools, hospitals, etc. Since the 80s here we've become much more invidividualistic in this country, and more willing to think of ourselves in isolation from our social obligations. I blame Thatcher tbh; she promoted the "there is no such thing as society" mantra and we're now reaping the benefits.

countries like sweden see a return through better hospitalisation procedures, improved public transport and general improvement in cleanliness in all aspects of life. sweden is notorious for having some of the best healthcare in the world so in return pay higher taxes. there's no problem with that. in this country the NHS is on its legs and much of our taxes go towards funding failed policies. even when they seem to work, most are imperfectly targetted towards the rich when they should be helping the poor.

[Joker]

countries like sweden see a return through better hospitalisation procedures, improved public transport and general improvement in cleanliness in all aspects of life. sweden is notorious for having some of the best healthcare in the world so in return pay higher taxes. there's no problem with that. in this country the NHS is on its legs and much of our taxes go towards funding failed policies. even when they seem to work, most are imperfectly targetted towards the rich when they should be helping the poor.

I agree with that, the UK governments (of all political stripes) don't help themselves by failing to use the tax revenues effectively. However, the NHS has seen a fair amount of improvements since 1997, although more should be done.

[She Wore A Yellow Ribbon]

I agree with that, governments don't help themselves by failing to use the tax revenues effectively. However, the NHS has seen a fair amount of improvements since 1997, although more should be done.

i think its more the issue of poverty than anything else but the trend of inefficient spending has been at the heart of government policy for years. for example they introduced the national minimum wage and it seemed to be working but it really wasnt. it was so imperfectly targetted it became almost embarrassing; middle class children who were seeking work during summer term became richer, adding to their families wealth. this only increased the polarisation between rich and poor. policies like the NMW also encouraged housewives from middle class families to get back into employment because the higher wage made it more attractive to find work, but this only increased competition in the labour market and made it harder for lower class individuals to get jobs. see the problem? negative multiplier effects everywhere. then the government have the cheek to wonder why child poverty increased and the core poor have worsened.

[Coney]

When I was a contractor, I became aware of the extent to which some people go to avoid paying tax. Sure, it might be legal but there is a moral angle too. If you expect to have police, fire, ambulance, education, etc. etc. then the funding has to come from somewhere. (Yeah, inefficient government, blah blah - that is a separate issue). If people like Carr and these contractors go around avoiding tax, those of us who do not do that end up with a higher bill. These people are NOT fiddling the tax man. They are fiddling you and me in the end so they are selfish ****s. Other contractotrs seemed to regard me as a commie because I did PAYE on my stuff, rather than paying dividends - tricks like paying yourself a salary just low enough to avoid National Insurance and then paying the rest as a dividend is a classic trick. Worse are what are called the FtoMs. They leave a company on the Friday and start again on the Monday as a contractor, so the company saves on the NI and the contractor saves on that and uses other avoidance tricks.

For Jimmy Carr to do what he does and then slag off politicians shows what a **** he is. I recall any number of MPs saying that they didn't realise you should claim a second house, pond or whatever then did the 'oh sorry - I'll pay it back' and then assume it is OK - like a thief saying he'll give the loot back to the victim and assume that is that.

The attitude of 'OK to fiddle the taxman' needs jumping on just as much as scroungers at the other end. It might be a legitimate fiddle, but it is still a fiddle and you are still pissing on the rest of us. ****.

[Coney]

I agree with that, the UK governments (of all political stripes) don't help themselves by failing to use the tax revenues effectively. However, the NHS has seen a fair amount of improvements since 1997, although more should be done.

Sort of. But I'd say "the UK governments (of all political stripes) don't help us by failing to use the tax revenues effectively"

The treasury is a store for OUR money that the politicians are supposed to look after. People on the fiddle, whether tax or benefits, are taking OUR money.

[Letters]

When I was a contractor, I became aware of the extent to which some people go to avoid paying tax. Sure, it might be legal but there is a moral angle too. If you expect to have police, fire, ambulance, education, etc. etc. then the funding has to come from somewhere. (Yeah, inefficient government, blah blah - that is a separate issue). If people like Carr and these contractors go around avoiding tax, those of us who do not do that end up with a higher bill. These people are NOT fiddling the tax man. They are fiddling you and me in the end so they are selfish ****s. Other contractotrs seemed to regard me as a commie because I did PAYE on my stuff, rather than paying dividends - tricks like paying yourself a salary just low enough to avoid National Insurance and then paying the rest as a dividend is a classic trick. Worse are what are called the FtoMs. They leave a company on the Friday and start again on the Monday as a contractor, so the company saves on the NI and the contractor saves on that and uses other avoidance tricks.

For Jimmy Carr to do what he does and then slag off politicians shows what a **** he is. I recall any number of MPs saying that they didn't realise you should claim a second house, pond or whatever then did the 'oh sorry - I'll pay it back' and then assume it is OK - like a thief saying he'll give the loot back to the victim and assume that is that.

The attitude of 'OK to fiddle the taxman' needs jumping on just as much as scroungers at the other end. It might be a legitimate fiddle, but it is still a fiddle and you are still pissing on the rest of us. ****.

[Cripps_orig]

This threads been a good read

[Master Splinter]

His dad is an awlsome scout.

[Niall_Quinn]

Taxation is part of the social contract; countries like Sweden have high marginal rates of taxation but don't seem to have such a problem in terms of avoidance or opposition to taxes. They can subsequently fund their large welfare state, and consequently have a higher quality of life with better infrastructure, schools, hospitals, etc. Since the 80s here we've become much more invidividualistic in this country, and more willing to think of ourselves in isolation from our social obligations. I blame Thatcher tbh; she promoted the "there is no such thing as society" mantra and we're now reaping the benefits.

No such thing as a social contract. It's just a buzz phrase that has zero weight in law. Contracts can't exist unless all parties concerned are in agreement to the terms, contracts are null and void if any party has to be coerced or otherwise compelled. The very fact the state claims jurisdiction over all the land and all the people living on it and gives no alternative to compliance with their "social contract" means everything the state does is illegitimate. The natural assumption we are all too dumb to organise our own infrastructure and services is too insulting to take seriously. All of your views seem to be absent any thought and based purely on assumptions the status quo is valid and without viable alternative. In effect you condemn human beings as the lowest form of life on the planet rather than the highest. Stupid beasts of burden to be marshalled, branded and worked. Your politics are that of the farmer with you being the willing (and I sense grateful) livestock. Incidentally, examining one criminal enterprise to find validity in another is dishonest.