EU Referendum

[Niall_Quinn]

No it hasn't.

You didn't watch what happened in Ireland then? Or what happened to the Dutch when they booted out that obnoxious European constitution only for it to be foisted back on them as the identical Lisbon treaty? These aren't honest people you are dealing with and they certainly aren't democratic. It should be enough for anyone to figure association of any form with these mobsters is a bad thing.

Two issues getting confused here. The idealism and the reality.

Ideally everyone trades together, cooperates, moves freely, shares the benefits of a unified marketplace and a common law in service of the people with benefits (and sanctions) applied evenly to all. A nice idea but the exact opposite of the reality.

Instead we have a rigged economic and trading system that has forced incompatible economies into line which in turn has caused great destruction in the economically less powerful nations. The evidence is in. After the initial blush of capital being dumped into these economies by vampire capitalists in volumes that could never be maintained and were obviously inflationary (hyper inflationary in some cases) came the crash. Oh yes, accidental of course - despite the easily traceable sequence of boom/ bust over close on a century now. This is how it is done. Tease with debt (money created out of thin air which is effectively a tax on real wealth) and then pull the rug. Real assets are the collateral. Structural reforms (daylight robbery) are then used to collect. Previously we did this to the developing world, now we are doing it to our own. This is the economic miracle of Europe, your basic, shabby theft but on a massive scale.

In terms of freedom, well we used to be able to turn up 30 minutes before departure, flash a passport and board the plane to wherever the fuck we wanted to go. Now what happens? People will say this is because of the terrorists. They are right, but not the same terrorists they are thinking. American and European state terrorists have made it ten times more difficult and dangerous to travel anywhere. It's their bombs that are falling all around the world. Their drones. Their "humanitarian" boots on the ground tearing up nation after nation in a real expression of their economic desire - pillage. Can it really be that all the killing we've done has been unavoidable self defence against a series of sudden enemies that decided to hate us because we are free? The sort of justification you see coming out of the TV and on the front pages of "respectable" media is comic book stuff. Who buys that shit? These things are interwoven but the shills will tell you all you need to worry about is border security. Stay in Europe and you get through, leave and you'll be blocked. Bullshit. This is the same border security that waves uncountable numbers of illegal migrants through each year. Why? Two reasons. One, we bombed the shit out of their own country so who can blame them. Two, we need cheap labour so natives having to suffer the extortionate cost of living can be kicked onto the street to be replaced by a slave. But all this is coincidence of course. And what has the great European parliament done to stem the tide of outsourcing to the labour camps in the far east, by the way?

Justice applied evenly? Has anyone been keeping up with the new International trade deals? Do you know what that means in terms of the balance between the rights of the citizen and the now superior rights of the corporation? So by an overwhelming majority you didn't want GMO? Tough shit, laws won't protect you now. This is Europe. A great fanfare in public, protecting the rights of the man in the street. A door hidden around the back through which every form of unspeakable shit seeps in, and then torrents once the people are ground down to acceptance of the inevitable.

Every aspect of this horror is a sick inversion.

But, the debate will boil down to a battle between the forces of good - those who believe in openness and cooperation and freedom and pixies at the end of the garden - and the racists on the other side who hate everyone not like them. That's the debate we are about to have. Laced liberally with fear. You'll starve and your company will collapse and you'll lose your job and you'll be on the street if you don't sign up and agree that a massive, unaccountable bureaucracy with an astonishing track record of corruption is in your best interests.

And if they don't get the result they want first time around then try, try again. You don't think we'd actually pull out if the impossible occurred and a fearful and uneducated nation suddenly woke up? That wouldn't happen. We know what would happen because we've seen it happen before. Every time a vote has gone against them they've simply ignored the result and moved the goalposts. These bastards don't take no for an answer, the record is all there to be reviewed for people who don't believe that.

So sure. This has already been decided. Let the theatre begin.

[WMUG]

You voting, NQ?

[Niall_Quinn]

You voting, NQ?

Nope. Not unless Guy Fawkes or Black September are running in my constituency.

[Letters]

Why would you not vote in a referendum? It's one of the few opportunities where your vote actually does count and you can vote directly for what you want to happen on an issue.

[Niall_Quinn]

Why would you not vote in a referendum? It's one of the few opportunities where your vote actually does count and you can vote directly for what you want to happen on an issue.

Same reason as always. Non-engagement with the establishment except where duress is used. Also, as I explained, the result is known in advance.

[Letters]

You didn't explain anything.

In a referendum it's a straight choice. It makes zero sense not to vote.

If the majority vote to stay in and you didn't vote then you have no right to complain about that - you could have done something but you didn't.

If the majority vote to Brexit then...well, we'll see what happens but I don't know what you mean by 'these bastards' not taking no for an answer. The cabinet are far from unanimous on the issue themselves - if they were we probably wouldn't be getting the referendum in the first place.

[Kano]

It always makes me laugh when people trot out the old line of 'no vote = no right to an opinion.' That narrows the ideal of democracy down to one day every five years. The endless amount of things you can do in between any referendum or vote counts for so much more. Even just having a conversation with someone else and challenging their perceptions, or vice-versa can have a much more profound effect than putting a cross on a ballot paper. Our rights and political engagement are far more valid than what happens during a voting cycle.

[Niall_Quinn]

You didn't explain anything.

In a referendum it's a straight choice. It makes zero sense not to vote.

If the majority vote to stay in and you didn't vote then you have no right to complain about that - you could have done something but you didn't.

If the majority vote to Brexit then...well, we'll see what happens but I don't know what you mean by 'these bastards' not taking no for an answer. The cabinet are far from unanimous on the issue themselves - if they were we probably wouldn't be getting the referendum in the first place.

We just have different ideas of what government actually is. You think it's an expression of representation for the people, I think something else. So my views make no sense to you, your's make no sense to me. Government is like alcoholism or drug addiction, battered wife syndrome. To go from a victim's position back to self control you need two steps. First you need to see there is a problem. For anyone on the outside looking in, this is obvious. But when you are trapped on the inside you can go for years or even a lifetime without realisation, and nobody can tell you, you have to see it for yourself. Next you have to stop feeding the problem. It seems to me, based on many exchanges now, you have started down the path of realisation. But because you haven't reached the end of that journey it still makes perfect sense, for you, to vote. I'm going through the withdrawal stage so it would be extremely self-destructive, for me, to vote. You saw I almost lapsed in the excitement of seeing a non-criminal being elected to a senior position last year. And there will be more of these temptations. Now because you are in a stage of denial you'll view everything I have said in a certain, negative way. I've seen it many time before. You'll make assumptions about my attitude and my own state of mind. My problem is I'm not very compassionate, so I have more of a "snap out of it", face slap attitude when I see people with problems. I gave you the title of a book to read a while back. The author of that book is everything I'm not. A compassionate, tolerant, patient man who has made it his work to rescue people and restore them to full awareness and self dependence. You're better going to him to try and understand why it would be impossible for me to endorse the sham that is soon to consume so many. Of course I won't vote. Just as an alcoholic with resolve won't have a drink today.

[Niall_Quinn]

It always makes me laugh when people trot out the old line of 'no vote = no right to an opinion.'

Same as, No conformity = No Status. Or tribal barbarism. If you are a protected minority then the majority will actually curb their own beliefs in your support. But if you are a minority with no status, such as a vote denier, you deserve nothing. After all, good men died so we can have the system we enjoy today. And you're absolutely right, sit down with your kids and appreciate what's really important in life. But then resolve you have a lot of bullshit to clean if you want your kids to have any life themselves.

[Letters]

http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/politi...20160222106453