But you accept you have no idea why?Originally Posted by Mac76
But you accept you have no idea why?
I was going to say the same but the trouble nowadays is that some people take offense to the pettiest things
However wop specifically is without doubt offensive, HCZ knows it is and that's why he wouldn't dare use it to De Zerbi or any other Italian, so his arguments ring hollow
No
My argument rings hollow?
Your argument is totally circular. I accept that it’s seen as offensive, your argument is it’s offensive because people think it’s offensive. Which is a nonsense argument and you know it is.
I wouldn’t use the P word as I said at the beginning because of the clear connotation of it being synonymous with seeing south Asian people as inferior.
I acknowledge that there are social ideas that are arbitrary and make no sense.
actually no, that was more Letter's argument although I think it can be fair comment to say the meaning of language changes over time - think about the word 'gay' and how it is used in old books and films in a way that virtually no one would use now because it has gained a new meaning
in the same way, whatever its origins, the accepted meaning of wop is as an offensive one - if you don't want to accept me saying that, try the OED: https://www.oed.com/dictionary/wop_n...sheet#14311269
But you know that because you wouldn't use it to an Italian's face
Care to elaborate?
There's no objective measure of how offensive something is. Offence is subjective.
Ergo if most people find something offensive then ipso facto it's offensive by dint of it being commonly thought so. What other measure is there?
If you rank swear words in order of offence pretty much everyone would have "the f word" second and "the c word" top of the pile.
There's a shared understanding of that. So those are the most offensive swear word by consensus.
With things like "wop" I don't even know. I mean, I don't ever hear them used these days because it's not the 1970's.
But I imagine the fact they're not used is in part because they were thought offensive so people stopped using them.
Because why would you go out of your way to be a dick and be offensive?
It’s exactly the same argument. I love the fact that you’re denying that even though I do think you’re no where near as smart as you’ve deluded yourself into thinking, you clearly have enough going on to see that.
No you’re right I wouldn’t say it, but it doesn’t change the fact that there’s no logical reason why it would be offensive which makes it totally arbitrary. Certain online dictionaries have defined the word female as anyone who identifies as female so that’s not going to help you win a logic and common sense debate.
It comes down to the fact that it’s offensive, because it’s been labelled as such. There’s no actual substantive reason to believe that though.
But I’ll give you one more chance, tell me why it’s offensive other than “that’s what it says here” and “people find it offensive”
Well sure, which is why in my reply above I've talked about consensus. Although I did kinda say that in my first message.
If most people find a slur offensive then it is by definition. You say something, it offends most people who hear it so it's offensive.
If only one random person finds something offensive then OK, we can agree they're being silly. But if it's most people then what other measure of offensiveness is there?
Correct first time, offence is subjective.
But there are words that objectively are intended to cause offence. However whether the intent is there or not, it’s not the word that causes harm…it’s someone else’s reaction to it.
The N Word didn’t cause harm to black people, it was Slavery, segregation, Jim Crow, legal injustice etc
And as I’ve explained countless times to Hurty Mac76 Feelies…there is no objective difference between Le rosbifs and Wop. And to be expected to respect arbitrary designations is not for me
Last edited by HCZ_Reborn; 29-08-2023 at 05:40 PM.
yes fair enough
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