When will Arteta be sacked by

[Letters]

Teams around us change as we do, therefore
Looking at where we are now (statistically) makes fuck all difference and has no relevance.

Obviously I disagree.
Yes, teams change, but I don't think the overall quality of the league changes that much from year to year.
I agree with the things you mention about deficiencies, but if the changes there don't yield better results then so what?

We can be so sanctimonious and privileged at times. I for one am just happy we have a team that wants to win, even if they dont.

Was talking to a mate about this last night - Liverpool fan, they're having their day in the sun.
I was saying how back in the day when Wenger was at his pomp dad and me always knew that it wouldn't last forever. Those years were the outliers, not now.
We have no divine right to be up there, for many parts of our history we haven't been. And success is rarely instant in football.
I did nearly "lose it" with Arteta after the 3 straight wins. It seemed like "same old Arsenal". But the last couple of games have put us right back in it. Let's hope we can finish the job. I'll try not to lose my head if we don't as there does seem to have been clear progress since last year. Arteta is earning the right to try and continue that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Ps. I’m not in the manager swap club unless its absolutely necessary. Just look at the spuffs and what they’ve benefited from it. Emery was not the right person, and never should have been put in charge.

Same here. Managers these days are almost irrelevant. 99.999999999999999% is about money and the rest is about football and the players and their commitment to the fans. The TV companies wax lyrical about the latter, except on transfer day when they pull their nickers down and finger themselves on live TV.

Klopp couldn't do a damn thing at Arsenal because he wouldn't have the lunatic sums he's been playing with. He wouldn't come here anyway, for that very reason.

If you look at the clubs above us, but use a different measure, you'll see they all spunk cash as if the world is ending tomorrow. Unfortunately it doesn't get more complex than that.

[Niall_Quinn]

Obviously I disagree.
Yes, teams change, but I don't think the overall quality of the league changes that much from year to year.
I agree with the things you mention about deficiencies, but if the changes there don't yield better results then so what?




Was talking to a mate about this last night - Liverpool fan, they're having their day in the sun.
I was saying how back in the day when Wenger was at his pomp dad and me always knew that it wouldn't last forever. Those years were the outliers, not now.
We have no divine right to be up there, for many parts of our history we haven't been. And success is rarely instant in football.
I did nearly "lose it" with Arteta after the 3 straight wins. It seemed like "same old Arsenal". But the last couple of games have put us right back in it. Let's hope we can finish the job. I'll try not to lose my head if we don't as there does seem to have been clear progress since last year. Arteta is earning the right to try and continue that.

This "divine right" bullshit is the biggest red herring of all. Nobody has a divine right, that's true. But it never had anything to do with that anyway. The spoils go to those who turn up most. That's what luck is, in reality. When you are a fucking waster, like Arsenal FC, you can moan all you want about inches but the lack of dedication is genuinely measured in miles. The Top Four Mega Trophy makes me laugh my arse off. This bunch of tossers might actually qualify for a tournament they literally stand ZERO percent chance of winning - or even competing. It's a sad joke. Being played on the fans. Who should know better by now.

[Globalgunner]

This "divine right" bullshit is the biggest red herring of all. Nobody has a divine right, that's true. But it never had anything to do with that anyway. The spoils go to those who turn up most. That's what luck is, in reality. When you are a fucking waster, like Arsenal FC, you can moan all you want about inches but the lack of dedication is genuinely measured in miles. The Top Four Mega Trophy makes me laugh my arse off. This bunch of tossers might actually qualify for a tournament they literally stand ZERO percent chance of winning - or even competing. It's a sad joke. Being played on the fans. Who should know better by now.

Exactly right. If you dont try and compete you will never compete. There is no such thing as "divine right" Pool were in the wilderness for decades but never gave up the desire to be at the very top. They changed many things, managers, players and even ownership until they found the right combination. The hunger never left them, they won Europa titles when we were still bragging about being perpetual top 4. Manchester United always believe that the PL title is divinely theirs and anyone else holding it is effectively handling stolen goods. That is a good egotism, the type that should drive all major sports franchises. At Arsenal we have lost any desire to be the absolute best. Our Owner Kroenke even stated it as a core business philosophy. We are simply delighted to be mentioned in dispatches. Not hungry to be on the main page. No surprises that Letters as usual is making excuses for mediocrity he campaigned for Wengers last 15 years as the best anyone on the planet could do.

We wasted at least 10 years on that French bloke, missing out on managers who could really drive this club forward. This mediocrity has seeped into the fanbase too. We swallowed Chelsea winning half a dozen leagues and 2 CL while we watched and dismissed it as "beneath us". It will likely take Spuds winning the CL before us (They will if Conte is properly backed) for the animal to awaken in the followership because sure as hell Kroenke wont give a shit. Our philosophy is to somehow stumble into glory, not strategize for it, hence hiring a pure novice and invoking all the deities on the planet to sprinkle stardust on him and fans to back him.

Ive decide to wait and see with Arteta because he seems to stumble from a shambles to miracle worker in the space of like 3 weeks in a continuous loop cycle all season. We have only beaten a top 3 team once all year and if you cant beat them, you will never join them. If Conte stays and they beat us to top 4, we will fall behind them again next season for sure. United wont allow themselves to continue failing and the top 3 will remain the top 3. So where does that leave us?

[Marc Overmars]

Wenger is partly to blame for conditioning the club to believe top 4 is the height of success, however when you’re stuck with ownership who legitimately don’t care if Arsenal win another trophy or not as long as the club is profitable, it’s not surprising the fans have fallen into their own malaise.

[Letters]

No surprises that Letters as usual is making excuses for mediocrity

Your straw manning is tiresome.

I want us to be at the top of the footballing tree, of course I do.
But given that last season we were bumbling around in mid table and didn’t even qualify for Europe, some realism is needed about what we could achieve this season. Anyone expecting a title challenge was deluded and that isn’t the criteria by which anyone should judge any Arsenal manager this season. No manager could have taken over Arsenal last summer and won us the title. The question is whether we are making progress under Arteta and whether we are doing so quickly enough. We need to see how this season ends but so far it seems like the answer to the first question is yes. The second question will depend on individual expectations but given the current footballing landscape I’d say yes IF we finish the season strongly.

Like it or not (not), Top 4 is a stepping stone and therefore important. It should not be the limit of our ambitions and Wenger’s comparison with a trophy was unhelpful. But given where we were last season it would be a big step forwards. We sack Arteta when we stop making progress under him. I’m not convinced he’s the man to challenge Klopp or Pep, but he’s earning the right to try, for now.
If we collapse again then my opinion about that will change.

[21_GOONER_SALUTE]

Letters.... I am not sure why your aren't a lawyer or something like that.

First of all you say this

I want us to be at the top of the footballing tree, of course I do.

Self explanatory, everyone understands what being at the TOP means. Then you say this........

We sack Arteta when we stop making progress under him. I’m not convinced he’s the man to challenge Klopp or Pep, but he’s earning the right to try, for now.

So if he can't challenge Klop or Pep who are on top of the foodchain, have been for the past 6 years and are both going nowhere, how exactly is he going to achieve your "dream"??

Its things and statements like this that have Globalgunner and others digging out your past and remembering how you were an active "enabler" during the dark days of AW, and it still remains a fact that only the disastrous Kronke ownership supersedes the damage the "enablers" have caused this club!!

Look it's simple, we either believe in the Arteta project or not, and if you don't believe he is the man to get us to the top, isn't it better to go and look for the man that will do it than doing another 10 years in purgatory. It's the AW argument all over again. I remember clearly how you would say then "at least we are always challenging under Wenger". Then it changed to we are always in the CL and top 4 trophy . Then when he finally fell out as long predicted, you then reluctantly said he might have to go.... what is wrong with being clear from the beginning stating what you want and what you can't stand in a competitive sport? No one's going to shoot you if you want Arteta out because you don't believe he's the best, he ends up staying proving you wrong and winning the trophies ... thats just life mate, its not a crime to be wrong (and funnily no obvious awards are being given for you being right in this situation or Zim would be smiling where ever he is).

But it's terrible to sit on the fence in life (a la Ukraine) and especially in sport. If most Liverpool fans were like you they'd still have Rafa there, thinking they couldn't do better and both Brendan and Klopp quickly disproved that notion.

Anyway I agree with Letters in one thing, it been 3 years and Arteta still hasn't shown me any evidence he has what it takes to win the league (I wasn't interested in top 4 trophies under AW, not interested in it now), so I still want him out ASAP...simple and easy. I know what I want and what competitive sport is about. End of.

[Letters]

So if he can't challenge Klop or Pep who are on top of the foodchain, have been for the past 6 years and are both going nowhere, how exactly is he going to achieve your "dream"??

I don't know if he can. Gut feeling says not, but IMO he's earning the right to try.
It feels like there is clear progress from last season. We already have more points than we finished on last year. Last season we were bumbling around in mid table, this year we are in the conversation for Top 4. That should not be our ultimate goal and I agree Wenger made too much of it, but like it or not it is an important step towards the top in the modern game. It feels like the players are buying in to what Arteta is trying to achieve. Changing manager now feels like it would set us back, not push us forwards. There's no guarantee that changing managers would bring success either, Emery was in theory a far more accomplished manager than Arteta and that didn't work out for us

I remember clearly how you would say then "at least we are always challenging under Wenger". Then it changed to we are always in the CL and top 4 trophy . Then when he finally fell out as long predicted, you then reluctantly said he might have to go

The "long predicted" is telling there. People were saying 15 years ago that Wenger would take us in to mid table or worse. The fact it happened 10 years after they predicted it doesn't really give them the right to punch the air and hand out "told you so's". It's like predicting a 6 on a dice, rolling 10 times, finally getting a 6 and saying "see?!". But fine, I'm happy to concede that I kept the faith with Wenger longer than I should have. But that's the good thing about Emery or Arteta or any future Arsenal manager. They're not Wenger, they don't have that legacy and baggage. When it became clear Emery wasn't working we got rid. If it becomes clear that Arteta isn't then we should do the same.
I just don't think we should pre-emptively do so. He's taking us in the right direction, IMO. I'm not sure how far he can take us, but I'm willing to give him a chance to try.

Anyway I agree with Letters in one thing, it been 3 years and Arteta still hasn't shown me any evidence he has what it takes to win the league.

What evidence would you have expected to see, given how things were when he took over? I mean, there was a lot of shit to sort out. For me, he's been doing that. He's cleared out some dead wood, he's sorted out the defence, there's more shape to the team, there's some good young players who look hungry. Did you see the way we moved the ball forward yesterday? At times it was superb, you put a top striker in this team - it's no secret that's what we are missing - and we'd be winning games more comfortably rather than the nervy affairs we've been seeing a lot this season. But the ability to get scrappy wins is an important one and it's a nice one we seem to have developed.

TL;DR - I reckon changing manager now would set us back, not push us forward.

[selassie]

I admit I have conflicting opinions of Arteta, but right now I am literally just enjoying each game as they come. I am emotionally invested in us securing CL for the first time in god knows how long.

If we don't finish in the top 4 this season it will be a big disappointment, even though we were not expected to at the start of the season, we have got ourselves into a very good position now with only a handful of games left. Yes we currently have a number of injuries, and you could argue that the lack of cover or squad depth is an issue created by Arteta, but the players are doing well at the moment, it is all we can ask of them, to win games.

Progress has been made this season even if our recent back to back losing streak reminded us all that this team is still very much a "work in progress"

Arteta is doing a decent enough job this season given that our expectations and previous two league finishes were 8th. He has started the rebuild of the squad and let's be honest he is doing a decent enough job of it. He has brought in or given opportunities to young hungry players of a good standard, they all seem to have decent character too.

Long term I don't believe Arteta will bridge the gap between us and the top 2, but I can't think of a manager outside of those who manage the current top 2 who could. Any progress made requires continued significant investment and internal improvement of the current squad. Not just for us, I think Chelsea, Spurs and Man United fall into this bracket too.

For me, if we can establish ourselves as a consistent top 4 team, continue to develop our style with a focus on young players then I'll be happy. It would be nice to make good progress in Europe too, ideally CL. I don't think any of us can ask for any more than that right now and if Arteta delivers that over the next few years then he'll be doing a good job.

[selassie]

Same here. Managers these days are almost irrelevant. 99.999999999999999% is about money and the rest is about football and the players and their commitment to the fans. The TV companies wax lyrical about the latter, except on transfer day when they pull their nickers down and finger themselves on live TV.

Klopp couldn't do a damn thing at Arsenal because he wouldn't have the lunatic sums he's been playing with. He wouldn't come here anyway, for that very reason.

If you look at the clubs above us, but use a different measure, you'll see they all spunk cash as if the world is ending tomorrow. Unfortunately it doesn't get more complex than that.

This is not strictly true. Klopp took over a struggling Liverpool team who were in pretty much a similar position to us prior to this season. He then went about gutting the squad by buying at the time largely unfancied but high potential players from prem clubs or in the european market. Liverpool only really started to turn it on once they took Barca to the cleaners with the Coutinho fee and invested that in Van Dijk & Allison. Let's not forget none of these players were world class before they joined Liverpool. Klopp moulded that team / squad into his own and pretty much improved every single player.

It's only really been in recent times since there recent success have they gone into the market and spent relatively big on players to compete with their current XI

Klopp is basically doing what Wenger did when he joined us all those years ago with the exception of winning CL which we didn't manage to do.

I guess the point i am making is that if you get your recruitment right, have a good plan and are able to improve your internal solutions then you will improve, I am not saying to the extent where you challenge for titles but any improvement right now for us is a good thing.

Poch improved the Spuds not that long ago, for a few seasons they were credible challengers. Though at the time, there wasn't a defined top 2 so the competition was a lot more balanced.

I wouldn't be against us improving to the extent where we are geniunely relevant in PL as a challenging team.