The Wish They Were All Dead Tory Cunt Thread

[Letters]

A test on understanding the EU, what it does, what it consists of, what effect it has on the body politic and decisions taken in this country would have eliminated 95% of the electorate

Sounds perfect.
If 95% of people don't understand what they're voting for then they shouldn't get a vote. And that includes me. Why are you asking me? I don't know what I'm talking about.
If I go to a doctor I don't expect him to list my symptoms on some public forum and get people to vote on what treatment is required. I went to see an expert, I expect them to know what to do and consult with other experts where necessary.
Obviously the overall problem here is there shouldn't have been a vote in the first place. It was just Cameron trying to placate the racists and more right wing people in society.

[Letters]

Anyway, the Sunak thing - that conversation got away from the point which was how ridiculous it is that a man who was put through an expensive prep school and then Winchester College regards not having Sky as a hardship. Obviously he's trying to find common ground with the "man on the street", but why? He's asked if he understands what it's like to go without - why not be honest and say no? I don't either. I didn't go to private school but overall we were a reasonably well off family and I didn't want for anything. I don't understand what it's like to have to skip a meal, or not have a holiday. Right now I don't have to choose between "heating and eating". But that doesn't mean that I can't empathise with people who are struggling like that and, if I were in power, would want to do something about it.

I'd have far more time for a politician who grew up in privilege and was more honest about it. How hard is it to say that they haven't experienced the struggles that some people are facing right now but they can imagine how hard it must be and will try to make things better. Sunak's response and attempt to be seen as just like us just makes him look more out of touch and ridiculous.

[Mac76]

Anyway, the Sunak thing - that conversation got away from the point which was how ridiculous it is that a man who was put through an expensive prep school and then Winchester College regards not having Sky as a hardship. Obviously he's trying to find common ground with the "man on the street", but why? He's asked if he understands what it's like to go without - why not be honest and say no? I don't either. I didn't go to private school but overall we were a reasonably well off family and I didn't want for anything. I don't understand what it's like to have to skip a meal, or not have a holiday. Right now I don't have to choose between "heating and eating". But that doesn't mean that I can't empathise with people who are struggling like that and, if I were in power, would want to do something about it.

I'd have far more time for a politician who grew up in privilege and was more honest about it. How hard is it to say that they haven't experienced the struggles that some people are facing right now but they can imagine how hard it must be and will try to make things better. Sunak's response and attempt to be seen as just like us just makes him look more out of touch and ridiculous.

Yes and for an MP it shoudl be easy, if he actually get out and about in his constituency, held surgeries etc like an MP's supposed to then he'd quickly learn what it's like, trouble is I suspect most Tories don't bother with all that inconvenient stuff.

TBH one reason i'd always vote Labour over the Tories, even a Tory-lite Labour like Starmer's party, is that the rank-amnd-file MPs, councillors and members are actually people who give a shit, that's why Labour often does better in deprived areas than the Tories (though I get BoJo's exploitation of the EU issue complicated that)

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes and for an MP it shoudl be easy, if he actually get out and about in his constituency, held surgeries etc like an MP's supposed to then he'd quickly learn what it's like, trouble is I suspect most Tories don't bother with all that inconvenient stuff.

TBH one reason i'd always vote Labour over the Tories, even a Tory-lite Labour like Starmer's party, is that the rank-amnd-file MPs, councillors and members are actually people who give a shit, that's why Labour often does better in deprived areas than the Tories (though I get BoJo's exploitation of the EU issue complicated that)

First I think it depends on the MP rather than the party, David Amess before he was murdered was well known for being one of the most diligent local MPs in parliament

But the whole Labour do better in deprived areas? Not really true in reality, this is why the red wall went to the Tories.

Not just because there’s been a greater cultural gap opening up between Labour and its erstwhile core group but because ultimately areas where you have lifelong votes for Labour, you get corruption (like Liverpool City council) and a sense of entitlement.
I’m not saying this is particular to Labour, I think anywhere where you can put an empty jam jar with a rosette of a certain colour on it and it will get elected tends to lead to a poorly served area because the incentives are not there to stick your neck out for people.

I’m not voting Labour for two key reasons (neither have anything to do with it being Tory lite) one is because it can’t be trusted on gender woo woo, second it can’t be trusted on foreign policy. In the second category it’s admittedly made big strides from Corbyn’s time (where the ratty little fuck couldn’t even condemn Russia for what happened in Salisbury) but having Lammy as shadow foreign secretary, and backing down to shrill histrionic activists and MPs scared of losing the Muslim vote over Israel doesn’t give me faith that they will do the right thing, so why should I support that.

I also wish Labour would be more bold on infrastructure spending, and be honest about the need to borrow and put up taxes. Being afraid of the Tories when they’ve mangled their own credibility on the economy is pretty silly.

[Mac76]

Not really true in reality, this is why the red wall went to the Tories.

err, that's why i referred to Johnson/EU, that's what won those seats over

if there's a cultural gap it's that a lot of traditional Labour voters are also a bit racist whereas as a party it is ostensibly anti-racism

[HCZ_Reborn]

Sounds perfect.
If 95% of people don't understand what they're voting for then they shouldn't get a vote. And that includes me. Why are you asking me? I don't know what I'm talking about.
If I go to a doctor I don't expect him to list my symptoms on some public forum and get people to vote on what treatment is required. I went to see an expert, I expect them to know what to do and consult with other experts where necessary.
Obviously the overall problem here is there shouldn't have been a vote in the first place. It was just Cameron trying to placate the racists and more right wing people in society.

So what you’ve done rather unwittingly is made an argument against referendums rather than an argument for tests prior to voting

Now in principle I agree but I think anything that is considered a constitution issue has to be put to a public plebiscite and even if it was a good idea to restrict who can vote (it’s not) it would result in a very large public backlash


The EU referendum was ironically caused by the lack of referendums we had on the EU to begin with. The Maastricht treaty, the Lisbon treaty etc. The extra irony is that ten years ago if you’d offered the hardline euro skeptics a Brexit where in we remained in the single market and customs union they’d have bitten your hand off to take it.
Now a far more severe separation is considered not enough.

But it had nothing to do with society, he was placating people in his own party. The EU up until 10 years ago was largely seen as a total irrelevance to most people.

If Tim Shipman is to be believed the decision to hold the referendum pre-dates the real rise of UKIP and defections from people like Mark Reckless and Douglas Carswell, Cameron would have faced a challenge to his leadership within the party (people who were already unhappy about the coalition with the Liberal Democrats)


Austerity, and putting immigrants in deprived communities and then campaigning on a more hardline immigration approach to win support in those communities is largely why it backfired on him.

[HCZ_Reborn]

err, that's why i referred to Johnson/EU, that's what won those seats over

if there's a cultural gap it's that a lot of traditional Labour voters are also a bit racist whereas as a party it is ostensibly anti-racism

No the EU thing was just part of it.

If you go to places like Blackpool, you see how utterly downtrodden they are and this has been a long term decline which Labour did nothing to reverse.


Not just poverty but crime, social problems like drugs and homelessness


And they then see Labour as elitist and cosmopolitan (and with good reason)


Keep accusing everyone of being racist whilst ignoring legitimate concerns over numbers and integration, jobs that are so poorly paid that they are only being taken up by people who either don’t look like or speak like you, pushing patronising, pandering and counter intuitive nonsense like DEI and Pride….and yeah you end up pushing people towards disingenuous charlatans like Farage or Johnson

[Letters]

So what you’ve done rather unwittingly is made an argument against referendums rather than an argument for tests prior to voting

Not that unwittingly.
There's definitely a difference between a referendum when you're being asked to form an opinion about a particular issue, and a general election where you're picking a representative and the parties are saying how generally they'll run the country.

I don't think the public were particularly crying out for this referendum. It was bone-headed, but Cameron never thought he'd lose it. Moron.

[Mac76]

No the EU thing was just part of it.

If you go to places like Blackpool, you see how utterly downtrodden they are and this has been a long term decline which Labour did nothing to reverse.


Not just poverty but crime, social problems like drugs and homelessness

But that's basically because they're full of miserable northerners who won't get off their arses to help themselves and would rather drink cheap beer on street corners - there's a reason why any semi-competant Eastern European can walk into a job and keep it - they are prepared to work

[HCZ_Reborn]

But that's basically because they're full of miserable northerners who won't get off their arses to help themselves and would rather drink cheap beer on street corners - there's a reason why any semi-competant Eastern European can walk into a job and keep it - they are prepared to work

So basically you make generalisations about people that you in turn would be horrified by if they made them about people who come from another country. Also it rather undercuts your claim to being this principled left leaning individual, because that remark was worthy of the most blue rinse Tory


Or maybe people from Eastern Europe didn’t mind being packed into cheap housing with ten other people like sardines and doing terrible wage jobs, because in a few months they’d take their money back home where it’s value would be exponentially higher?

I’m not knocking people from Eastern Europe, I house shared with people from Bulgaria and Romania and Poland for years, I often found them more pleasant than people from this country. But their presence here was often a symptom of how appalling wages are.

James Bloodworth wrote an excellent book called Hired about the Gig Economy and its impacts on the Brexit vote. This is a journalist who both left leaning and liberal.