When will Arteta be sacked by

[Mac76]

Also your comments re the above players again shows a lack of balance. I agree with you that we were left with too small a squd/first teamers to get the job done this season, but even this needs to be balanced by the key injories we suffered at crucial times. Also, its interesting that you focus on the manager's apparent inability to recognise young talent while ignoring the fact that this season he has built a team around them. Is it not also fair to recognise the improvements that they have made (or do you put this solely down to the players themselves with no outside influence)?

my point is he began by bringing in people like Willian and showing a clear mistrust of our younger players - it was only when injuries etc forced him to play the likes of Saka and ESR that he realised they were the best hope of building a cohesive team

it's just one example of how he came into the job knowing nothing and is learning on the job at a big club, instead of doing what he should have and started in the lower leagues.

[Marc Overmars]

...and was regarded as one of the world's best coaches with 14 years of top flight experience when he arrived at Liverpool. Do we really think this is a fair or realistic comparison with Arteta?

I agree, it wasn’t fair but Liverpool and Klopp was consistently used as some kind of comparison stick because the starting point was similar to what Arteta inherited. I remember reading plenty of random stats like Arteta’s first 50 games v Klopp etc and they weren’t too dissimilar, in fact Arteta at times compared favourably.

It was always comparing apples and oranges but that didn’t stop Arteta backers from using arbitrary facts from the early part of Klopp’s reign to paint Arteta to be something. It was obvious from the start that Liverpool were on a super charged trajectory, every year they were moving the needle. Where as we’ve seen what can only be described as incremental progress at best.

I know the margins are fine and we were close this year but history isn’t going to remember that. Arteta must get us back into the CL if he’s to be taken seriously, 3 years is good period of time to get, most coaches are lucky to get that now, next year is the one where he has to deliver.

[I am invisible]

Well, I’m still very much happy with where we’re going, and I’m happy to continue with the current project. I’ve seen enough evidence of progress and direction of travel and identity coming together to keep me interested, and we’ve hit our objectives for the year. The wheels may have come off over these last few weeks, but that 4 month period after we ditched Aubameyang wasn’t a mirage - we were genuinely good over a sustained period then and you could very clearly see the outlines of the long-term plan taking shape.

Obviously the way we’re ending the season is a bit of a shame after all we’ve done to get ourselves in such a great position, but, if we’re being honest, we all knew it was coming - most of us called it back in January when we pruned the squad without being able to recruit. Personally, I think it’s something of a minor miracle that we managed to make it to the spurs game before we got found out! The spine of our side has been Eddie Nketiah, Granit Xhaka, Mo Elneny and Rob Holding for a good month or more now, with a couple of championship-level fullbacks, and nothing on the bench to turn to, and we’re still in with a mathematical shout of top 4! Honestly, there’s no major problems here and no mystery as to why we’re limping over the line - we’ve just run out of logs to toss on the fire.

I can’t say I’m overly fussed about whether it’s CL or EL for us next season - when we get to a point where we’re actually strong enough to compete for the CL, then I’ll start caring about it, but until then it’s just about getting a young squad used to rigours of regular midweek football and travel, and either competition will do for that. The only reasons I really wanted CL now we’re a) to stop spurs having it and b) because I really fucking hate Thursday / Sunday matches!

I don’t think we have to worry about it affecting our summer plans, though - the next phase of our rebuild will have been contingent on making the EL as a minimum, and the amount of money you earn just for taking part in the EPL these days means we’ll have no worries about affording the players we want. Any big-name players going into their peak years might think twice about joining us now, if we don’t have CL to offer, but tbh I don’t think we do our best business at that end of the market anyway - we’ll have no shortage of options if we continue shopping in that 22-23yo bracket.

Overall I’m excited to see where we go next. We’ve done extraordinarily well to be where we are, mixing it with the company we’re in, with the youngest, thinnest squad in the league, the youngest manager in the league, and without a decent CF option - add some depth and add a goal-scorer or two and I think there’s something coming together here.

[IBK]

my point is he began by bringing in people like Willian and showing a clear mistrust of our younger players - it was only when injuries etc forced him to play the likes of Saka and ESR that he realised they were the best hope of building a cohesive team

it's just one example of how he came into the job knowing nothing and is learning on the job at a big club, instead of doing what he should have and started in the lower leagues.

Don't get me wrong. There is a lot you say that I agree with, and Arteta is flawed, for sure. he has made some disastrous decisions, and the Willian move was one of these. For the 1st half of Arteta's regime, I think we was far too wedded to relying on so called senior players - and this may be understandable for a young manager trying to find his feet, and in particular the authority to create the team that he wanted to. He has also been found wanting this season when - having committed to developing a young team, he was far too 'conservative' in stepping outside his first 11 - and when injuries hit some of his back ups didn't have the confidence or the match experience to take us over the line, and this was compounded by tactical mistakes in playing his 'favourites' out of position rather than trusting the reserves. I suppose that our main difference is that I think I have seen enough to have some confidence that Arteta will learn from his mistakes and evolve next season, but like MO says if this evolution does not continue then it will be time to re-asess the manager's position.

[selassie]

I think we have done quite well this season all things being considered but we are going to need to continue to improve if we want to finish in the top 4 next season. The top two are miles ahead of us. We are basically sitting in that group below City and Liverpool with Chelsea and the Sc*m. I suspect Man United will be back in that group next season and presumably Newcastle if they buy well in the Summer. Chelsea have a decent manager and will spend, as do the Sc*m. Man United will most likely improve and buy young high profiled players, Ten Haag is a good young manager too who has proven he can build a competitve team that performs well in CL. We have no room for error going forward, we have to buy and buy well, not just beefing up the squad but buying first team players in many positions. If some of the young players lose their place then so be it.

After the defeat agains the Sc*m I was resigned to Europa league football, it was obvious we weren't getting anything from the Newcastle game, the squad had run out of gas and our squad players are simply not good enough anyway, it was plain for all to see.

I'm going to judge Arteta next season on a results only basis, the settling in period is over for me now, this is his team and he will presumably add players of his choice to it in the Summer. We are now in a position where I expect a strong challenge for top 3/4 and if we don't next season then Arteta has to go.

[Niall_Quinn]

It's truly amazing how some fans, a lot of them, just can't see what's happening here. Compare Arsenal 2022 with Arsenal 2002, or even 1982. Everything that made us Arsenal is gone. And if I'm wrong about that, please do correct me. But back it up with evidence, not repetitive hope and speculation.

[Niall_Quinn]

Arsenal fans are gutted because they didn't get 4th. They want the manager out because he didn't get 4th. They view the season as a failure because they didn't get 4th.

4TH!

These fans are stone cold losers. They think 4th place is success. And so does the club.

And THAT'S the main and currently insurmountable problem at Arsenal because the loser club and the loser manager and the loser players and the loser fans all think 4th is success.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Yes that is the sum total of fan ambition

We know why the club want 4th but I don’t think you can conflate that with fan wishes to use it as a stepping stone.

Given how in another post you think the game is entirely rigged, I’m surprised it even matters to you.

[selassie]

Arsenal fans are gutted because they didn't get 4th. They want the manager out because he didn't get 4th. They view the season as a failure because they didn't get 4th.

4TH!

These fans are stone cold losers. They think 4th place is success. And so does the club.

And THAT'S the main and currently insurmountable problem at Arsenal because the loser club and the loser manager and the loser players and the loser fans all think 4th is success.

I want Arsenal to win the League and Champions League (something we haven't ever achieved). I want Arsenal to buy and attract the world's best players.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but what I will say is that things take time. At the moment i dont EXPECT us to be competing for the title, we clearly do not have a squad to do that. What I want to see is progress and by that I mean realistic improvements and seeing Arsenal back amongst the top 4 in the league. Seeing Arsenal in the Champions League. If that makes me a loser so be it. But I am a realist and no manager in the world right now can turn this current team into Champions.

[Niall_Quinn]

Yes that is the sum total of fan ambition

We know why the club want 4th but I don’t think you can conflate that with fan wishes to use it as a stepping stone.

Given how in another post you think the game is entirely rigged, I’m surprised it even matters to you.

Well I didn't watch any of it today. I think my frustration at stupid and gullible fans goes back to Wenger's time when it took so much to convince these dummies of the reality. Now, years later, same silly sods being fed shit and liking it. Which, even then, is not that important to me. Except - these bastards vote. And they keep the BBC propped up. And they wear their masks and support Nazis in Ukraine and think it's a good idea that lunatics and Alzheimer's patients dictate everyone's lives.

It's connected. I see the same stupidity in every facet of life. But yes, in isolation, I don't care about Arsenal at all.