General Football Nonsense

[HCZ_Reborn]

I don’t know what that table is meant to prove because obviously over a 50 year period you are going to have more teams that have won it in that time, than over a ten year period


Between 2014/2015 and 2023/2024 - four different teams have won the league - City, Liverpool, Leicester and Chelsea

If you take the whole of the 1980s - you also had four different winners - Liverpool, Villa, Everton and Arsenal

In that period Liverpool won six of the titles, Everton two, Villa one and Arsenal one.

Football has always been a bit of a closed shop in that regard, what has changed is that the teams at the top aren’t changing so as time goes on you will have the same three or four teams winning over the next fifty years

[Letters]

Football has always been a bit of a closed shop in that regard,

Not really.
Look back into the 50s and 60s. Loads of different champions.
And there was a lot of variation of a team’s quality year to year.
We finished 12th the season before our Double season and 5th the year after.
It’s not really possible to finish mid-table one season and be champions the next now.
(Leicester a possible outlier, but that’s very much the exception).
The gap between the haves and have nots is bigger than it’s ever been and the whole structure of football is set up to keep it that way.
As much as we all despite what City have done, there’s no other way to achieve success now other than to buy your way in. If we do win the title this year it will have been because of spending big.
TL;DR, football is all a bit shit these days.

[HCZ_Reborn]

Not really.
Look back into the 50s and 60s. Loads of different champions.
And there was a lot of variation of a team’s quality year to year.
We finished 12th the season before our Double season and 5th the year after.
It’s not really possible to finish mid-table one season and be champions the next now.
(Leicester a possible outlier, but that’s very much the exception).
The gap between the haves and have nots is bigger than it’s ever been and the whole structure of football is set up to keep it that way.
As much as we all despite what City have done, there’s no other way to achieve success now other than to buy your way in. If we do win the title this year it will have been because of spending big.
TL;DR, football is all a bit shit these days.

So basically what you’re saying is you have to go back to a time before you or I were actually born for things to have been more competitive.


Also the 50s and the 60s were a bit more of an outlier, compared to earlier decades where again you had one team that was dominant (Arsenal in the 1930s for example)


Also I’m pretty sure I did clearly mention that it’s more difficult to get into the more stratified top four or five teams that it ever was.


I think Football has definitely become worse in terms of overall competitiveness, but I’m saying that taking how many different teams have won the league over a certain period is not the best way of proving that

[Letters]

So basically what you’re saying is you have to go back to a time before you or I were actually born for things to have been more competitive.

You said “always”

Also the 50s and the 60s were a bit more of an outlier, compared to earlier decades where again you had one team that was dominant (Arsenal in the 1930s for example)

I’ll have to look into that more to know if that’s true.
But the general point is the game was far more competitive and there was far less of a gap between the haves and have nots. Didn’t Clough take Forest up and then win Divison One the very next season? That’s a bit of an outlier admittedly but my point is now the teams which come up are just fighting for survival all season, such is the gap between the PL and the other divisions. And the expansion of the CL has meant there’s a little group of teams at the top of each big league who are fairly distinct from the rest.

Also I’m pretty sure I did clearly mention that it’s more difficult to get into the more stratified top four or five teams that it ever was.

Then what are we arguing about?!

I think Football has definitely become worse in terms of overall competitiveness

That really isn’t something which needs debating.
Another measure of this is The Double. When I were a lad it was something spoken about in hushed tones, now it’s pretty common, because when the gap between the top few and the rest is so big it’s fairly probable that the champions will also be there or thereabouts in the Cup competition too.

but I’m saying that taking how many different teams have won the league over a certain period is not the best way of proving that

I think it’s a reasonable metric, but it’s certainly not the only one.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My argument from the outset is that I don’t think how many different teams have won the league is that instructive of a metric when talking about the change in football


In last thirty years six different clubs won the title, thirty year period before that nine different clubs


In the thirty year period 1964-1994 - Liverpool won the title thirteen times

In the same thirty year period 1994-now - United have won it 12 times

[Letters]

My argument from the outset is that I don’t think how many different teams have won the league is that instructive of a metric when talking about the change in football

I had a look decade by decade and I think you're basically right because you get one offs like Leicester, Blackburn and Leeds which mask the general trend.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

England: Pickford, Alexander-Arnold, Stones, Colwill, Lewis, Rice, Bellingham, Saka, Foden, Palmer, Gordon.
Subs: Guehi, Walker, Henderson, Gallagher, Livramento, Jones, Watkins, Gomes, Solanke, Pope, Madueke.

Greece: Vlachodimos, Rota, Mavropanos, Koulierakis, Giannoulis, Koubelis, Bakasetas, Siopis, Masouras, Tzolis, Pavlidis.
Subs: Tzolakis, Mandas, Vagiannidis, Retsos, Douvikas, Pelkas, Chatzigiovanis, Chatzidiakos, Konstantelias, Zafeiris, Mantalos.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Quite shitty of UEFA to say this can't be postponed for Baldock's death.

[McNamara That Ghost...]

Saliba starts for France against Israel.

Calafiori and Trossard both start in Italy v Belgium.

[dazthegooner]

Quite shitty of UEFA to say this can't be postponed for Baldock's death.

It's UEFA what do you expect?