When will Arteta be sacked by

[Niall_Quinn]

You don't get it mate. The ambition isn't to be realistic. Being realistic is acknowledging that there's no magic wand to take us back to where we were in 2004. If you think Arteta was happy with Newcastle, then you haven't read what he has had to say. It was obvious that he and the whole team were as gutted as we fans were by how it went down. The season's close was down to a team running on fumes who were clearly affected by pressure, not a loser mentality. It happens to the best of teams on occasion - look at the league winners in their CL Semi for example.

You say Arteta isn't a leader. I would counter that by arguing that his young team are clearly playing for him and have been all season. Being overwhelmed by the occasion with a half fit team at St James' Park doesn't change that, or suggest that there's no team spirit. There clearly is if you have watched us play all season. If you don't rate Arteta or his methods that's fine, but don't conflate a lack of ambition with this.

That team showed NOTHING, anywhere on the pitch. They simply didn't turn up to a crucial game. Maybe they were tired, despite the light season, maybe they are young (so why were they running on fumes?), but to not turn up at all? If that was the first time it happened then you can call it and edge case. But that's what is almost guaranteed to happen when any recent team, old or young, is up against it. If we demand context then let's have some history with which to fill it. How many opportunities were there to close out that season, even with such meagre ambitions? And every single one missed? If that's anywhere near what we'd call an acceptable attitude and mentality we're in deeper shit that I thought.

How are the fans still making these excuses? Don't they get tired? Surely it should be us running on fumes by this late stage?

[IBK]

That team showed NOTHING, anywhere on the pitch. They simply didn't turn up to a crucial game. Maybe they were tired, despite the light season, maybe they are young (so why were they running on fumes?), but to not turn up at all? If that was the first time it happened then you can call it and edge case. But that's what is almost guaranteed to happen when any recent team, old or young, is up against it. If we demand context then let's have some history with which to fill it. How many opportunities were there to close out that season, even with such meagre ambitions? And every single one missed? If that's anywhere near what we'd call an acceptable attitude and mentality we're in deeper shit that I thought.

How are the fans still making these excuses? Don't they get tired? Surely it should be us running on fumes by this late stage?

I said on another post that explanations are not necessarily excuses. We went into a game away against the team in 3rd in terms of 2nd half of season form missing key players; with Ben White; Saka; ESR and Gabriel clearly half fit; Tomi rushed back (because we had noone else) and broken during the game and carrying the scars of a NLD that was half given to Sp*rs by the referee. We shat the bed but shit happens...and it was a low point for a callow team. But IMO it is unfair to suggest that this team's prospects are hopeless because of this - or to ignore the progress made this season.

[Letters]

Find the posts and show me.

This is the post I was talking about:

There aren't 3 Bayerns in the PL. There's one PSG (great on their day, shit on other days), and a whole stream of pub shite. Utd, the chavs, Pool, the spuds? Are these the Bayerns? Don't think so. We get a new manager in and we might not be able to step it up to PSG level right away but we'll be mixing it with our fellow pubbers in no time flat.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...t=4161&page=37

You were talking about City as the PSG - at the time they were miles ahead of everyone else, it was the season they finished on 100 points.
That's where you said we'd be mixing it with the rest in no time flat.
As I said, I didn't expect us to be quite so awful post Wenger. But what was your expectation at the start of this season in terms of league position? Let's look at what Arteta took over.
When he became our boss we were half way through the 2019/20 season After 17 games we had won 5. We ended up in 8th place with 56 points, we won 14 league games all season.
Liverpool won the title on 99 points. We did improbably win the FA Cup of course.
That's what Arteta took over. Anyone expecting a title challenge 2 seasons later is a loony. (That isn't a reference to your demand about a title challenge 2 years after Wenger left, I'm talking about the time between then and now).

I said a club of this stature with such a history should ALWAYS be challenging - not winning by divine right, but fighting.

Where does that level of expectation come from? The only times we have been consistently challenging for the title are the 1930s and the early Wenger years, 1998-2004.
Otherwise historically we've been all over the shop



Have you not read Fever Pitch? Hornby talks about the 70s and 80s and how crap we were for much of it. He talks about how in the run up to Anfield '89 he'd decided that the title was something that one either believed in or didn't, like God. Now football has changed a lot since then of course. In an era where the gap between the haves and have nots is bigger than ever we are certainly one of the haves. But I don't believe there has ever been an era where sides like City can buy up titles quite so brazenly. I have no idea why they aren't called out on it. Just because it was Wenger who said "financial doping" that doesn't make him wrong. It's not something he had to compete with in his glory years.
And yes, the Top 4 Trophy is a meme, it was a stupid way of phrasing it. But Top 4 is an important stepping stone in the modern game. You might not like it, I don't either, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

There has been some progress this season. There have also been some worryingly familiar failings. It certainly hasn't been a roaring success of a season but it's not an unmitigated failure either. Arteta gets one more season for me. Look at what he took over there's been some progress year on year. I don't expect a title challenge next season, the delta between us and the top 2 is still too big. But after the top 2 there's no-one much good this year, we're a good as anyone after those two and better than most. 3rd feels achievable next year, 4th would be acceptable.

It's perfectly consistent to want us to aim for the top but also accept that there are stepping stones along the way. We're a work in progress, we have a young squad, with the right additions we could push on next year. If we don't then fine, #ArtetaOut. But for me he's earned the right to try and push us on.

[IBK]

This is the post I was talking about:



http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/sh...t=4161&page=37

You were talking about City as the PSG - at the time they were miles ahead of everyone else, it was the season they finished on 100 points.
That's where you said we'd be mixing it with the rest in no time flat.
As I said, I didn't expect us to be quite so awful post Wenger. But what was your expectation at the start of this season in terms of league position? Let's look at what Arteta took over.
When he became our boss we were half way through the 2019/20 season After 17 games we had won 5. We ended up in 8th place with 56 points, we won 14 league games all season.
Liverpool won the title on 99 points. We did improbably win the FA Cup of course.
That's what Arteta took over. Anyone expecting a title challenge 2 seasons later is a loony. (That isn't a reference to your demand about a title challenge 2 years after Wenger left, I'm talking about the time between then and now).


Where does that level of expectation come from? The only times we have been consistently challenging for the title are the 1930s and the early Wenger years, 1998-2004.
Otherwise historically we've been all over the shop



Have you not read Fever Pitch? Hornby talks about the 70s and 80s and how crap we were for much of it. He talks about how in the run up to Anfield '89 he'd decided that the title was something that one either believed in or didn't, like God. Now football has changed a lot since then of course. In an era where the gap between the haves and have nots is bigger than ever we are certainly one of the haves. But I don't believe there has ever been an era where sides like City can buy up titles quite so brazenly. I have no idea why they aren't called out on it. Just because it was Wenger who said "financial doping" that doesn't make him wrong. It's not something he had to compete with in his glory years.
And yes, the Top 4 Trophy is a meme, it was a stupid way of phrasing it. But Top 4 is an important stepping stone in the modern game. You might not like it, I don't either, but that doesn't mean it's not true.

There has been some progress this season. There have also been some worryingly familiar failings. It certainly hasn't been a roaring success of a season but it's not an unmitigated failure either. Arteta gets one more season for me. Look at what he took over there's been some progress year on year. I don't expect a title challenge next season, the delta between us and the top 2 is still too big. But after the top 2 there's no-one much good this year, we're a good as anyone after those two and better than most. 3rd feels achievable next year, 4th would be acceptable.

It's perfectly consistent to want us to aim for the top but also accept that there are stepping stones along the way. We're a work in progress, we have a young squad, with the right additions we could push on next year. If we don't then fine, #ArtetaOut. But for me he's earned the right to try and push us on.

[Globalgunner]

Nah its a crap post. Full of the usual excuses.

[Letters]

Nah its a crap post. Full of the usual excuses.

So respond.
I mean respond to what I actually said.
You never seem to actually do that.

[I am invisible]

You can use stats in any way you want though. We were equal 3rd in terms of games won this season. You could therefore point to a succesful game plan in going ahead and then defending leads. but this of course wouldn't fit your agenda...Again I am trying to go for balance, not claiming that there weren't flaws.

Some positive stats that show we’re on the right track…

https://www.skysports.com/football/n...r-mikel-arteta

Seems pretty black and white to me - we mostly need a goal-scorer (or two) to start making the most of all these chances we’re creating and we need to build out the squad a bit more so we can better rotate and cope with absences (particularly towards the end of the season where we really ran out of steam).

We’ve done the painful bit already - we’ve drastically cut the wage bill and slimmed down the squad, and we have plenty of room to immediately add to the squad under PL financial and player quota restrictions - so for once our problems are all clear and simple, with simple fixes that don’t require anything else to shift first. We’re good to go.

[Globalgunner]

So respond.
I mean respond to what I actually said.
You never seem to actually do that.

I prefer to ignore you. Waste of my precious time. Your creator made you the way you are for a reason. I'll let him do the heavy lifting of fixing your broken mind.

[Letters]

I prefer to ignore you.

That works for me.
If you don’t have the ability to respond properly then don’t bother.
Just cut out the insults and straw manning.

[Niall_Quinn]

Go and show those charts and lists of excuses to our tired and over-played (millionaire) lambs so they can feel better about failing to turn up and fight on 38 occasions. If people want to give them an easy ride, and even praise them for SOMETIMES doing their jobs, okay. But don't expect that to drive them onwards and upwards. Don't expect to see them using an easy out to fortify their characters. Which is what I'm talking about. Hence the discussions about everything but.

Btw, put a ticket price under each year in those charts.