Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Özim]

Two early threads on this incarnation of the board. One started by me.

http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=52
http://www.goonersweb.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=45

Both predominantly critical of Wenger although it should be noted there are more posters involved and some good debate by posters who are all still members and can all still post when they want.

I don't understand your point, when you posted we'd had a monumental collapse, you're hardly going to go in and praise him then, your post wasn't really particularly critical either, it was just posting the fact we'd collapsed.

It's pretty clear you're a big fan of Wenger and have been for years, now sure you realise he's not that great anymore but you do jump to his defence often enough to suggest you still have great respect for him and always do mention what he did 12+ years ago.

Look at the way he behaves now and what he does, look at how he (and the club) treat the fans, he gets so much credit for the stadium, thing is he didn't put in any money himself, so what risk was there to him, if he'd cut his salary on invested himself fine, but he didn't he carried on, getting payrises all through the times we allegedly had less money so for me the people who build the stadium were the investors (who clearly did it for their cut but they took the risk).

Look at the club now and how much he controls it, do you like what you see? I really don't 15 years ago I could have never imagined the club would be like this, it's not a club for the fans anymore, its a get rich quick scheme for the board, manager and owner, they're reaping the rewards, what do the fans get? Criticism and the same stuff every single season.

[Cripps]

Yes. I have views. Those views are reflected in my posts, as are yours, as are anyone's.
But I've never tried to stifle any Wenger views. I may have responded to them as I see fit.
The idea that anyone has been banned for anti-Wenger view is ludicrous, as evidenced by the fact you are still here as are many others who are anti-Wenger.

You turn up when there's anti Wenger sentiment and stick up for him, try and provide a positive spin or play devils advocate.

[Niall_Quinn]

But if that was such a relevant common denominator, almost all of us would be gone.

There is an almost total absence here of support for Wenger being the manager, where as five years earlier there was a lot more if anything it’s a microcosm of the entire Arsenal fan base itself.

This particular site started in 2011 and before that it was hosted on another server (although didn’t use it much then) but having looked at this forum and compared to most this has been the most consistently hostile to Wenger....and as someone who wanted him gone that’s why I come here most.

Even within the anti Wenger sentiment there seems to be a subset which you Zim and occupy....where there is a real hatred for the guy, it’s not a sentiment I share and sometimes I think it borders on the ridiculous (although I have almost no respect for him after the way he went about getting his new contract)

You seem to be, to me at any rate....seem more aggrieved that other people weren’t as anti Wenger as you from the off.

I'd agree, respect has turned to hatred in some cases and, personally, I believe it's warranted. The contract debacle last season was the crossing point. Not only did he drag the club through a year of uncertainty, but he even failed his magic top 4 trophy gold standard and then admitted that, well, yes, look, little bit maybe he was responsible for it. Wenger comes across as a good guy when he speaks (see his heroics at the recent AGM for a perfect example), but his recent actions are conclusive proof that what he says and what he does are very different and almost diametrically opposed. His recent actions have confirmed what were previously worst fears and guesses at what goes on inside the club. Now we know for sure and what we're left with is a deeply dishonest man who is no different to all those other corporate scumbags that, for sure, I hate. Wenger's in that club now and deservedly so. Sprinkle in the little fact that this isn't Apple or Barclays Bank, where there's a choice consumers can make, but Arsenal Football Club that I have supported from childhood and you get an explosive reaction. It's not ridiculous or extreme at all, as some claim. It's emotion, the thing all genuine fans have when it comes to the thing they are "fan"atical about. Show me a reasonable and open minded fanatic and I'll expose him as a charlatan in 15 seconds flat.

Honestly, that scene from Red Dwarf where the alien is stalking the ship and Rimmer want to form the committee called CLITORIS to launch a strongly worded leaflet campaign in protest - that's not me. And you can't be a "fan"atic if it's you. There's nothing reasonable about any of this, not Wenger's behaviour, not the club's lack of performance in return for the huge gate receipts, TV revenues, sponsorship deals, etc, not the players' performances when measured against their wages (now there's something we can call ridiculous) and certainly not the contempt the bastards who have hijacked this club have for the fans that end up funding all this shit abuse. Some people want a "reasonable" debate about this after 10 years or more of the shit.

No. We're a long way past that point.

[Cripps]

But I've never tried to stifle any Wenger views.

[Letters]

Interestingly Cripps is on another board (posting in the same way) and has not been banned, which is funny because people use to say to me on any other forum some posters would get banned for far less than those who have been banned would have been. Clearly that's not the case.

Actually, that is interesting. I'm quite surprised he has lasted elsewhere but if he has then good for him. I think we have mellowed over time on here. Back in the day people would get banned for less than they would now. When Joel first set up the original board people would get banned for swearing at another poster, it was a reaction to 606 which was pretty lawless. Anyway...Cripps was banned plenty of times, let back plenty of times. Some people want him back but I know for a fact that others left because of his persistent WUMming. I don't want to get bogged down into individual cases, the bigger fact - and it is a fact - is that very few regular posters have ever been banned from this board and no-one has ever been banned for expressing anti-Wenger views.

[Letters]

You turn up when there's anti Wenger sentiment and stick up for him, try and provide a positive spin or play devils advocate.

I do when I think more-extreme views are being expressed which I don't agree with. Isn't that what this place is for?

[Letters]

Seriously, dude. Learn what stifle means. I may have argued against them but I haven't stopped other people expressing them.

[Cripps]

Actually, that is interesting. I'm quite surprised he has lasted elsewhere but if he has then good for him. I think we have mellowed over time on here. Back in the day people would get banned for less than they would now. When Joel first set up the original board people would get banned for swearing at another poster, it was a reaction to 606 which was pretty lawless. Anyway...Cripps was banned plenty of times, let back plenty of times. Some people want him back but I know for a fact that others left because of his persistent WUMming. I don't want to get bogged down into individual cases, the bigger fact - and it is a fact - is that very few regular posters have ever been banned from this board and no-one has ever been banned for expressing anti-Wenger views.

If attempts were made to get him and others back would it be allowed?

[Cripps]

Seriously, dude. Learn what stifle means. I may have argued against them but I haven't stopped other people expressing them.

[Niall_Quinn]

I don't understand your point, when you posted we'd had a monumental collapse, you're hardly going to go in and praise him then, your post wasn't really particularly critical either, it was just posting the fact we'd collapsed.

It's pretty clear you're a big fan of Wenger and have been for years, now sure you realise he's not that great anymore but you do jump to his defence often enough to suggest you still have great respect for him and always do mention what he did 12+ years ago.

Look at the way he behaves now and what he does, look at how he (and the club) treat the fans, he gets so much credit for the stadium, thing is he didn't put in any money himself, so what risk was there to him, if he'd cut his salary on invested himself fine, but he didn't he carried on, getting payrises all through the times we allegedly had less money so for me the people who build the stadium were the investors (who clearly did it for their cut but they took the risk).

Look at the club now and how much he controls it, do you like what you see? I really don't 15 years ago I could have never imagined the club would be like this, it's not a club for the fans anymore, its a get rich quick scheme for the board, manager and owner, they're reaping the rewards, what do the fans get? Criticism and the same stuff every single season.

That's why GW is the way it is. What more is there to say about this club or this board or this manager when it has all been said 1,000 times before? And, contrary to what some are saying, there have been some very good debates about the club that have delved into the finer details. But how many ways can it be said? Arsenal is going through a rancid period, rotten at the core, dying in front of our eyes, but the past has built a massive legacy that will take time to be fully consumed and destroyed. People hanging on to that legacy is understandable I guess, because it's all that's left. But revelling in the fact a club like Arsenal remains "above average" just because we haven't melted away yet sticks in the throat and will attract a negative response.

If people don't want to go to games anymore, or even watch the games on TV, then a fan forum will have less and less pull. Most of us are here now, I suspect, because the place is familiar. A way to blow off steam. So having a mod that is constantly calling for reasoned debate is a farce. How can the last passengers on a sinking ship be expected to stand around on deck discussing the weather? Is it in any way odd that an increasing number of passengers are waving their fists at the bridge and calling the captain an utter cunt for DELIBERATELY steering the ship onto the rocks? Especially as the tickets cost an arm and a leg and luxury passage was promised by the First Lizard. Just so they could sell all the tickets. Fuck talking about the weather in reasoned tones, tbf.

It's a miracle anyone is here at all. In the end it goes to show that, whatever our positions, we must all be diehard Arsenal fans. Unlike the cunts in charge of the club.