Random Arsenal Shit (When it's not worth starting a thread)

[Özim]

Interested by this comment (he says, trying to drag the conversation back to Arsenal).
Where do you think we are as a club?

I think we're in a bad place

- An owner who only cares about money and has no interest or knowledge of football
- A board who's only interest is again money and who again no little about football and are happy to belittle/ignore fans and feed them some nonsene about points per pound ad overachievning, all whilst getting handsome payrises
- A manager who is power hungry, doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't in reality care about the club (based on the fact he'd have left if he did as clearly he's not delivering success) and also indulges the owner by focussing on profit
- Poor coaching
- Inadequate medical team
- Average youth team
- An ingrained deeply losing culture at the club where coming 4th is success
- 20 years of one man controlling everything, making it very vry hard for anyone new to come in and hit the ground running
- A club becoming less attractive to prospective players
- Poor commercial deals overall

[Niall_Quinn]

I do when I think more-extreme views are being expressed which I don't agree with. Isn't that what this place is for?

How can any view possibly be extreme in relation to Wenger, after what he has done? How long does this extreme shit being dumped on the fans by the likes of Kroenke, Gazidis, Kewsick and Wenger have to go on before its warranted to lob some of it back. Is there a dignity to dying bent over with your knickers around your ankles?

[Özim]

That's why GW is the way it is. What more is there to say about this club or this board or this manager when it has all been said 1,000 times before? And, contrary to what some are saying, there have been some very good debates about the club that have delved into the finer details. But how many ways can it be said? Arsenal is going through a rancid period, rotten at the core, dying in front of our eyes, but the past has built a massive legacy that will take time to be fully consumed and destroyed. People hanging on to that legacy is understandable I guess, because it's all that's left. But revelling in the fact a club like Arsenal remains "above average" just because we haven't melted away yet sticks in the throat and will attract a negative response.

If people don't want to go to games anymore, or even watch the games on TV, then a fan forum will have less and less pull. Most of us are here now, I suspect, because the place is familiar. A way to blow off steam. So having a mod that is constantly calling for reasoned debate is a farce. How can the last passengers on a sinking ship be expected to stand around on deck discussing the weather? Is it in any way odd that an increasing number of passengers are waving their fists at the bridge and calling the captain an utter cunt for DELIBERATELY steering the ship onto the rocks? Especially as the tickets cost an arm and a leg and luxury passage was promised by the First Lizard. Just so they could sell all the tickets. Fuck talking about the weather in reasoned tones, tbf.

It's a miracle anyone is here at all. In the end it goes to show that, whatever our positions, we must all be diehard Arsenal fans. Unlike the cunts in charge of the club.

Exactly, the views we're seeing reflect what's happening, and the dwindling numbers also do so, people have lost interest and moved on, the manager may not see it from his little bubble, but many people don't have the same interest in it, that's due to everything that's going on and what we're getting on and off the pitch.

I still come here as you say to vent frustration at the same old same old, in reality many conversations are the same but that again reflect what happens at Arsenal, nothing changes.

You can't blame posters for the lesser number of posters, you can however blame a club who don't care about it's fans or offering them any kind of value for money or any respect. This club is going to the dogs, irony is the owner, board and manager can't see it from their golden palace, the money is still rolling in, so what's the problem?

[Özim]

How can any view possibly be extreme in relation to Wenger, after what he has done? How long does this extreme shit being dumped on the fans by the likes of Kroenke, Gazidis, Kewsick and Wenger have to go on before its warranted to lob some of it back. Is there a dignity to dying bent over with your knickers around your ankles?

I don't get it either, this isn't some normal club where the manager is underachieving, it's everything else about this club as well, it's a monopoly, there's no incentive to do anything but make money and the whole setup is geared towards that and has no care for it's payng customer as they feel like there's plenty more where they came from if they decide to move on.

[The Emirates Gallactico]

As much as I think Letters can be a dick at times () , I think it's harsh to blame him for GW's collapse. Sure, perhaps he could have done more to boost activity back when we actually had a semblance of an active community such as revamping this design and hosting content but as far as I'm aware this is more of a hobby for him so you can't really blame him here.

I think the entire concept of internet forums are dying out as more people take to social media platforms like twitter, facebook, YouTube to disseminate views and debate things they're into. The Arsenal fandom on twitter is massive (probably the biggest EPL one) and then you've also platforms like podcasts & Arsenal Fam TV which is huge now.

Plus the repetitiveness and abject predictability of Arsenal over the last decade has taken it's toll; there's only so many times people can moan about the exact same issues before they get bored of doing it.

- Inadequate medical team

Actually I think that's one area we've made some genuine improvements on, thanks in part to the club taking some good steps to rectify the ridiculous issues we used to have, such as hiring world class fitness coaches (Shad), leading muscle repair experts (That Japanese bloke) and also really investing into the therapy & conditioning facilities at the training centre (we fitted a cryotherapy chamber this summer and we've got other plans afoot).

We're at worst "average" now and no worse than most clubs when it comes to injuries.

[Letters]

I don't understand your point, when you posted we'd had a monumental collapse, you're hardly going to go in and praise him then, your post wasn't really particularly critical either, it was just posting the fact we'd collapsed.

It was a response to the assertion that "back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy". Look at the replies in those threads. Also look at how there's some decent debate on those threads. We've lost some good posters. None have been banned, I'd welcome most of those back.

It's pretty clear you're a big fan of Wenger and have been for years, now sure you realise he's not that great anymore but you do jump to his defence often enough to suggest you still have great respect for him and always do mention what he did 12+ years ago.

I think I'll always have respect for the things he did for us in the early years. When I started going to games we were boring boring Arsenal, at one point we nearly gave up our season tickets it was so dull. The side Wenger transformed us into, he took us to places I never thought I'd see an Arsenal side go. And the fact we now expect title challenges every year is a reflection of that. That should be acknowledged. But it also should be acknowledged that he's past it and we'll never win the biggest prizes under him again. This is the Wenger Paradox, as I like to call it. He's the reason we expect to be right at the top of the game and the reason we aren't.

He gets credit for the stadium move because he was the one who raised our profile to the point where we could sell out a 60,000 seater stadium (according to Wiki our average home attendance in the thoroughly enjoyable 1992/3 season was 24,403).
And I think he did pretty well when we first moved and money was tight to steady the ship.

His control of the club now is worrying and it's disgraceful that he was offered a new contract for even more money in the summer. The fans are being ripped off but if they keep going more fool them. I don't like the way the whole sport has gone, I don't like having a board who care more about the balance sheet than what happens on the field and I don't like having a manger who can't deliver the biggest trophies when we have the resources to compete with anyone.

I'll argue against the more extreme views but I've long since abandoned the "Wenger In" camp, I don't think there are many left in that camp now.

[Herbert_Chapman's_Zombie]

The thing is the anti-Wenger sentiment is a more recent thing, back in the day everyone supported him and only a few didn't rate the guy (me being one of them) and these people were rounded on and ridiculed for having an opinion, often goaded with joke comments and ironically none of those posters (very much WUMs got banned).

Yes sure now people want Wenger out, not really a surprise though, it's the popular opinion now as noone in their right minds can possibly have a valid football argument for wanting to keep him on, I stayed on the right side personally by not getting personal or insulting other posters, despite insults being thrown at me, but I prefer it that way.

There's one guy in particular on here who hs goaded people for years and never got banned, why? Because he's always been pro Wenger and has got in with some of the more pro Wenger mods, he was just as much to blame for stuff as anyone else, yet he's still here, that tells it's own story. I'm not saying he should have been banned, I wouldn't go that that route personally, but if you're gonna ban some of those who have been, he definitely should have been on the list as well.

I'm entitled to my opinion, in football terms yes, I can't stand the guy, he's everything bad abut football today, look where we are because of him, he's destroying this club and I think he gets far too much credit as well, outide football I'm sure he's a nice enough guy, but I don't know him personally, all I see is a man who seems to lie to the fans, do the weirdest things just to prove people wrong and sees himself as untouchable. If you want an indication of how powerful Wenger is you don't need to look far, look at how Keswick behaved, he only did so because he clearly feels above everyone else there and can't be bothered to entertain their ridiculous ideas/questions (to him), Wenger is in the same position the only difference being he is a better speaker, a much better speaker, he does however see himself as some sort of messiah for the club.

People have humoured Wenger for far too long and when people treat you like some sort of god in a lot of people it makes them feel like one and they then feel superior, pretty much what has happened to Wenger, just listen to him talk and listen to how he's happy to blame the fans, only someone very very comfortable in their position would feel able to do that. He even went as far as defending Keswick after the AGM, he could have kept quiet and said the AGM is over etc etc, but no he defended the guy, unbelievable.

NQ is spot on with what he says, if someone kicks you in the teeth (not literally) you don't then get up and say don't worry about it, you're a great guy!

So your complaint is mainly that people were a bit unkind to you

Suck it up sweetheart you have no entitlement to have your opinion taken seriously. Plus what I’m saying is that on this particular board where I’ve been hsince 2011 I have consistently in that time thought he was the wrong guy for the job and wasn’t ridiculed for holding that view.

People who pay money to watch Arsenal week in, week out in the main didn’t agree with either of us back then. You’re entitled to think they were wrong, but they were equally entitled to think you were wrong.

[Letters]

As much as I think Letters can be a dick at times ()

That's a banning

I think it's harsh to blame him for GW's collapse. Sure, perhaps he could have done more to boost activity back when we actually had a semblance of an active community such as revamping this design and hosting content but as far as I'm aware this is more of a hobby for him so you can't really blame him here.

Tbh I had big visions for this place, the point of moving to VBulliten was to give us control and make the messageboard just a part of a bigger site. Honestly, I don't have the get up and go or skills to really make that happen.

I think the entire concept of internet forums are dying out as more people take to social media platforms like twitter, facebook, YouTube to disseminate views and debate things they're into. The Arsenal fandom on twitter is massive (probably the biggest EPL one) and then you've also platforms like podcasts & Arsenal Fam TV which is huge now.

This is how I see it, and yes the stagnation at the club is a factor too. There isn't that much new or interesting to say in the endless Groundhog day.

[Cripps]

So your complaint is mainly that people were a bit unkind to you

Suck it up sweetheart you have no entitlement to have your opinion taken seriously.

By that logic no-one should have been banned in the first place

Thanks for agreeing

Next time just say that instead of taking the long way round.

[Letters]

I think we're in a bad place

- An owner who only cares about money and has no interest or knowledge of football
- A board who's only interest is again money and who again no little about football and are happy to belittle/ignore fans and feed them some nonsene about points per pound ad overachievning, all whilst getting handsome payrises
- A manager who is power hungry, doesn't know what he's doing and doesn't in reality care about the club (based on the fact he'd have left if he did as clearly he's not delivering success) and also indulges the owner by focussing on profit
- Poor coaching
- Inadequate medical team
- Average youth team
- An ingrained deeply losing culture at the club where coming 4th is success
- 20 years of one man controlling everything, making it very vry hard for anyone new to come in and hit the ground running
- A club becoming less attractive to prospective players
- Poor commercial deals overall

Hmm. Worryingly, I actually agree with a lot of that. I do think Wenger cares about the club, I think he's just too damn stubborn to realise he's not going to win the PL again, every season seems like an increasingly desperate double or quits.
And I don't think #WengerOut will fix much of that either, but it would at least be different and that is probably a good thing in and of itself.