When will Arteta be sacked by

[Letters]

do you think we can win the premier league title and the European cup under Arteta, if the answer is no then you have to ask yourself why the hesitancy to say maybe we do need to look at other coaches to move us forward.

My answer is no, but the hesitancy comes from the fact that I'm not that convinced many coaches would move us forward.
I just feel that winning the PL is harder than it was 20 or 30 years ago. What Leicester did was very much the outlier, every other title has been won with an exceptional manager, a bucket load of money or both. Arguably we have the latter, I'd agree we don't have the former but they don't grow on trees. And Arteta has at least restored the connection between the club and the fans, something that has been lamentably missing. Also, it's not a given that a top manager would fit in with us as a club. I'd argue Emery is better than Arteta, but he didn't work out.
My feeling is we're just as likely, possibly more likely, to go backwards as progress under a new manager.

[HCZ_Reborn]

My answer is no, but the hesitancy comes from the fact that I'm not that convinced many coaches would move us forward.
I just feel that winning the PL is harder than it was 20 or 30 years ago. What Leicester did was very much the outlier, every other title has been won with an exceptional manager, a bucket load of money or both. Arguably we have the latter, I'd agree we don't have the former but they don't grow on trees. And Arteta has at least restored the connection between the club and the fans, something that has been lamentably missing. Also, it's not a given that a top manager would fit in with us as a club. I'd argue Emery is better than Arteta, but he didn't work out.
My feeling is we're just as likely, possibly more likely, to go backwards as progress under a new manager.

Why is it harder ? Would you say it’s because of spending power. And if that’s the case would you not argue that we have had considerable resources over the past three years. And that using the example of the Leicester outlier is actually a very misleading account of where we find ourselves.

And that we’ve seen with a club that would be far more realistic to compare us to in Liverpool that it is in fact possible for the right man to win us silverware

[Letters]

Why is it harder ? Would you say it’s because of spending power.

That's a big factor, yes.

And if that’s the case would you not argue that we have had considerable resources over the past three years.

I don't think that can be disputed, but I'd note that it took City 4 years to win their first title after being taken over. It took them 10 years before they achieved a real period of dominance.
Chelsea won the title quicker after they got the infinite money cheat, but they finished Top 4 before they were taken over so had less of a gap to bridge.

And now while yes, we are able to spend big we aren't uniquely so. We're not in the position that Chelsea or City were when their resources were significantly more than everyone else's, we are competing with other teams who can also spend eye-watering amounts.

And that we’ve seen with a club that would be far more realistic to compare us to in Liverpool that it is in fact possible for the right man to win us silverware

I wouldn't disagree with that but by "the right man" you're probably talking about a handful of people in world football, all of whom are currently employed elsewhere and there's no immediate reason to think we could tempt them to join us. And just because <insert manager here> achieved success elsewhere that doesn't mean they would with us. I refer you once again to Emery who wasn't at the level of the people you're probably thinking of, but has certainly done better elsewhere than he did at Arsenal.

[HCZ_Reborn]

That's a big factor, yes.


I don't think that can be disputed, but I'd note that it took City 4 years to win their first title after being taken over. It took them 10 years before they achieved a real period of dominance.
Chelsea won the title quicker after they got the infinite money cheat, but they finished Top 4 before they were taken over so had less of a gap to bridge.

And now while yes, we are able to spend big we aren't uniquely so. We're not in the position that Chelsea or City were when their resources were significantly more than everyone else's, we are competing with other teams who can also spend eye-watering amounts.



I wouldn't disagree with that but by "the right man" you're probably talking about a handful of people in world football, all of whom are currently employed elsewhere and there's no immediate reason to think we could tempt them to join us. And just because <insert manager here> achieved success elsewhere that doesn't mean they would with us. I refer you once again to Emery who wasn't at the level of the people you're probably thinking of, but has certainly done better elsewhere than he did at Arsenal.

We have one of the most valuable squads in world football and you don’t know think a top manager would be interested in joining us?

Chelsea are a complete mess, they are only FFP compliant because of the length of contract they’ve signed a multitude of players too. City are in a precarious situation, Haaland aside the nucleus of their squad is ageing and when you look at their summer outlay it would be hard to argue they are replacing these players with the same quality. Newcastle I think will take a few years to get themselves where they want to be. So really our time is now, and for me we are squandering a massive opportunity by placating an arrogant and hubristic manager who is no where near as intelligent or good as he thinks he is

[Letters]

we are squandering a massive opportunity by placating an arrogant and hubristic manager who is no where near as intelligent or good as he thinks he is

He's nowhere near as stupid and bad as you think he is.

I do think we could attract a top manager, but there's not many managers around at that really top level. Changing manager isn't a guarantee of improvement. It's given Spurs a boost but they were such a bloody mess last year. In a situation where the players are behind the manager and playing for each other - which I believe is true at Arsenal - changing manager is more likely to be disruptive, IMO.

[HCZ_Reborn]

He's nowhere near as stupid and bad as you think he is.

I do think we could attract a top manager, but there's not many managers around at that really top level. Changing manager isn't a guarantee of improvement. It's given Spurs a boost but they were such a bloody mess last year. In a situation where the players are behind the manager and playing for each other - which I believe is true at Arsenal - changing manager is more likely to be disruptive, IMO.

No Risk, No Reward

You don’t see him as bad because you’re content with where we are, I’m not…I see a big opportunity being squandered. There’s never guarantees in life. I can’t guarantee 100% that Arteta won’t get us the title, but I’d say that it’s more likely than not that he won’t. And on top of that this is a coach who is individually responsible for us dropping points arguably more than the players themselves or superior opposition.

It’s unlikely I can expect anything to happen before the summer, but should we absolutely be scouting Europe to find someone who can get us further than Arteta? Of course we should. Xabi Alonso at Bayer Leverkusen would be one to keep our eyes on, someone who might well have the talent to match their arrogance.

[Letters]

You don’t see him as bad because you’re content with where we are

I'm of the view that you can only really assess "where we are" at the end of a season. Although obviously if you're rock bottom at Christmas that gives you some indication.
The further in to the season you get the more evidence you have for where we are.

I'm certainly happy with where we were at the end of last season. It was massively better than where any of us thought we'd be. It wasn't just a freakishly good start, we were in the title race till the business end of the season. There are annoyances, the FA Cup exit and the collapse towards the end which meant we handed City the title on a plate rather than making them run to the line. But, overall, madness to think about replacing the manager at that stage IMO.

And I was pleased with the business we did in the summer. By that I mean I was pleased that we got business done early and we landed some of our targets. We can certainly question whether we've spent well but we've shown some ambition and it's an indication the board are backing Arteta.

The question is where are we now? At the time of writing we've had a few bad results, some bad performances where we got good results despite them. But what it adds up to right now is we're still in all the competitions we can be in. We're in touch at the top of the table, there's enough games in the CL group that our fate is very much in our own hands. So far, so adequate.

My overall view is it's probable that Arteta can't take us much further, but he's absolutely earned the right to try. A combination of last season's efforts and the summer spending have put some pressure on. Expectations are higher and Arteta needs to deliver. But by that I don't mean it's the PL or bust, but we certainly should be in the running till the end. CL...I expect us to get out of the group, after that I think we'll be found wanting. Other Cups impossible to predict and I wouldn't make those part of the criteria to judge him anyway.

I'm not convinced that removing a manager who has the backing of the players is anything other than a backwards step - it might ultimately end up taking us forwards overall I guess, but there's no guarantee of that. I am by nature a bit risk adverse. Arteta isn't the Messiah but he isn't a very naughty boy either.

[HCZ_Reborn]

I'm of the view that you can only really assess "where we are" at the end of a season. Although obviously if you're rock bottom at Christmas that gives you some indication.
The further in to the season you get the more evidence you have for where we are.

I'm certainly happy with where we were at the end of last season. It was massively better than where any of us thought we'd be. It wasn't just a freakishly good start, we were in the title race till the business end of the season. There are annoyances, the FA Cup exit and the collapse towards the end which meant we handed City the title on a plate rather than making them run to the line. But, overall, madness to think about replacing the manager at that stage IMO.

And I was pleased with the business we did in the summer. By that I mean I was pleased that we got business done early and we landed some of our targets. We can certainly question whether we've spent well but we've shown some ambition and it's an indication the board are backing Arteta.

The question is where are we now? At the time of writing we've had a few bad results, some bad performances where we got good results despite them. But what it adds up to right now is we're still in all the competitions we can be in. We're in touch at the top of the table, there's enough games in the CL group that our fate is very much in our own hands. So far, so adequate.

My overall view is it's probable that Arteta can't take us much further, but he's absolutely earned the right to try. A combination of last season's efforts and the summer spending have put some pressure on. Expectations are higher and Arteta needs to deliver. But by that I don't mean it's the PL or bust, but we certainly should be in the running till the end. CL...I expect us to get out of the group, after that I think we'll be found wanting. Other Cups impossible to predict and I wouldn't make those part of the criteria to judge him anyway.

I'm not convinced that removing a manager who has the backing of the players is anything other than a backwards step - it might ultimately end up taking us forwards overall I guess, but there's no guarantee of that. I am by nature a bit risk adverse. Arteta isn't the Messiah but he isn't a very naughty boy either.

Nothing is certain but ultimately there’s probably been enough games played now to get an idea of where we are likely to be. At the moment things are a struggle, we are around mid table in terms of chance creation as a mixture of the wrong personnel and wrong system. There is very little indication that this will improve, and in fact we’ve needed injuries for Arteta to switch things up (with the exception of goalkeeper which really isn’t a high priority cause for concern area…and in fact Raya has made far more mistakes between the sticks than Ramsdale, despite having played fewer games).

Rather than build on what we’ve achieved last year it feels that we’ve gone backward….(we’ve dropped points at home in two fixtures we won last season, as well as losing to one of the weakest European opponents we’ve faced since Ostersunds)

We look like scoring fewer goals, we look more predictable and it’s only especially away from home that we have the two best centre backs in the league that we look solid at the back that we haven’t conceded more. With the exception of one game this season (the home game against PSV) we’ve looked unconvincing. Attacking players look unhappy because they are not getting the ball quickly enough to have the space to operate in, players like Odegaard and Havertz are being asked to play a high pressing game which is not something that they are particularly good at. And it’s only Partey getting injured that means we’ve stopped playing him at right back.

If you don’t watch the games and are just comfortable with a top four finish, then yeah there’s nothing to be concerned about…although if Saka is out for a long time…you’ve essentially lost our most vital attacking outlet so even that is thrown into doubt.

If your attitude is “oh we will probably lose to city at the weekend but never mind, we are better off than where we were three years ago” then yeah I can see why you’re happy with how things are. We’ve paid a hell of a lot of money, it’s below even a bare minimum requirement than we are better than we were three years ago.

I’m not arguing that he should be sacked now, because I think it’s too late to turn things around in terms of actually competing for the title. We simply don’t have the right midfield setup or a striker. But should we be looking to replace him next summer with someone who can have a better chance of taking us forward because they aren’t locked in by Dunning-Kruger effect yes absolutely.

Players are professionals, this idea that they are especially bonded to Arteta is for the birds, especially when they’ve seen with Ramsdale and Tierney that he will drop them for almost no reason.

[Mac76]

Nothing is certain but ultimately there’s probably been enough games played now to get an idea of where we are likely to be. At the moment things are a struggle, we are around mid table in terms of chance creation as a mixture of the wrong personnel and wrong system. There is very little indication that this will improve, and in fact we’ve needed injuries for Arteta to switch things up (with the exception of goalkeeper which really isn’t a high priority cause for concern area…and in fact Raya has made far more mistakes between the sticks than Ramsdale, despite having played fewer games).

Rather than build on what we’ve achieved last year it feels that we’ve gone backward….(we’ve dropped points at home in two fixtures we won last season, as well as losing to one of the weakest European opponents we’ve faced since Ostersunds)

We look like scoring fewer goals, we look more predictable and it’s only especially away from home that we have the two best centre backs in the league that we look solid at the back that we haven’t conceded more. With the exception of one game this season (the home game against PSV) we’ve looked unconvincing. Attacking players look unhappy because they are not getting the ball quickly enough to have the space to operate in, players like Odegaard and Havertz are being asked to play a high pressing game which is not something that they are particularly good at. And it’s only Partey getting injured that means we’ve stopped playing him at right back.

If you don’t watch the games and are just comfortable with a top four finish, then yeah there’s nothing to be concerned about…although if Saka is out for a long time…you’ve essentially lost our most vital attacking outlet so even that is thrown into doubt.

If your attitude is “oh we will probably lose to city at the weekend but never mind, we are better off than where we were three years ago” then yeah I can see why you’re happy with how things are. We’ve paid a hell of a lot of money, it’s below even a bare minimum requirement than we are better than we were three years ago.

I’m not arguing that he should be sacked now, because I think it’s too late to turn things around in terms of actually competing for the title. We simply don’t have the right midfield setup or a striker. But should we be looking to replace him next summer with someone who can have a better chance of taking us forward because they aren’t locked in by Dunning-Kruger effect yes absolutely.

Players are professionals, this idea that they are especially bonded to Arteta is for the birds, especially when they’ve seen with Ramsdale and Tierney that he will drop them for almost no reason.

most of that's right although i do think Partey at RB was because he didn't have Zin at LB and he wanted to carry on his inverted FB BS

that said there may well also have been something going on with Gabriel and he was trying to prove we didn't need him by playing White at CB, which was shown to be blatantly dumb and whether he likes it or not he simply can't undermine our defence by not playing Gabriel and Saliba as a partnership and in their best positions

his combination of rookieness, failing to see the obvious, obsession with previous-era Citeh, inability to deal with various different character types and general stubborness are a terrible combination

[Letters]

If your attitude is “oh we will probably lose to city at the weekend but never mind, we are better off than where we were three years ago”.

It isn't.